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Author Topic: Snowpiercer TV Series (TNT)  (Read 1265 times)

Pat

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Re: Snowpiercer TV Series (TNT)
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2021, 02:58:06 PM »

We must be talking past each other, because explaining that was literally the whole point of my first post about the train as a metaphor. If it helps, replace every instance of "science fiction" with "hard science fiction".

Movie, haven't seen the series. But it should apply to both, unless they ditched the train and class differences.

Well I disagree. I don’t think the presence of a train (whose mechanism is not explained in the series) implies hard sci-fi. Maybe they were aiming for that in the marketing of the movie though, I honestly can’t remember.
I don't think it does either, and never said that. I said they chose a piece of technology as a metaphor, then apparently decided that meant they had to take the harder science fiction route. And that if they added more fantastic or surreal elements, it would easier to see as a metaphor, and wouldn't lead to people trying to analyze and justify it using the standards of science fiction, rather than fantasy.

I'm literally just restating my first post, using almost exactly the same words and structure. The only thing I'll add is the lack of surreal or fantastic elements in Snowpiercer should be evident (Tilda Swinton's teeth don't count). It's played fairly straight. Plausible science fiction doesn't require technology to be explained, that's not a defining characteristic. In fact, some of the best science fiction makes a point of not even trying (Lem, Le Guin, Liu, the Strugatsky brothers, etc.). What pulls something away from science fiction into the figurative realm is explicitly surreal or fantastic elements, and it's what Snowpiercer needed to stop people from thinking too much about why the train.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Snowpiercer TV Series (TNT)
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2021, 04:29:45 AM »
Not wanting to watch an “ inexcusably stupid concept” I can understand. I’m like that with many concepts (almost all superheroes or “mutation” movies).

I said inexcusably stupid for its tone. Something as dumb as that setting needs to be about a macho guy with a foreign accent blasting away 6 million bad guys with one-liners and a villain named "The Viper".

There was an animated film set in a post-apocalyptic setting in a city where everything was powered by people's poop, and where fed addictive lollipops that caused constipation as a reward. But it was a farcical film filled with dumb stuff because it's a dumb story. It didn't see itself in any way as a story making a social commentary.

I respect the latter way more than the former. And I see the latter having way more space for a series than the former.

So back to the series-I do not believe that such a stupid premise has any space for serious drama because it's all based on nonsense anyway. How can I take any of the characters' problems seriously for a drama when the base setting is nonsensical.

The train is a metaphor for social class/wealth. It's ever moving, ever circling and can't be escaped. That's why the ending is literally derailing the train. The problem is-
The problem is that the commie director wanted to tackle a complex class subject with a simplification metaphor. Because derailing a train in a metaphor is a lot easier to sell to the masses than sending 30,000 people to the gulag. But that's the 'real' train derailing.

Im with Tolkien that I hate metaphor fiction.

Edit: I apologize for the commie rant. I just hate this low bar low effort sort of 'Class Conflict' metaphor science fiction film. These things are dime a dozen and always crap. And I hate how smart they think they are.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 04:46:25 AM by Shrieking Banshee »

Pat

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Re: Snowpiercer TV Series (TNT)
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2021, 08:44:14 AM »
The train is a metaphor for social class/wealth. It's ever moving, ever circling and can't be escaped. That's why the ending is literally derailing the train. The problem is-
The problem is that the commie director wanted to tackle a complex class subject with a simplification metaphor. Because derailing a train in a metaphor is a lot easier to sell to the masses than sending 30,000 people to the gulag. But that's the 'real' train derailing.

Im with Tolkien that I hate metaphor fiction.

Edit: I apologize for the commie rant. I just hate this low bar low effort sort of 'Class Conflict' metaphor science fiction film. These things are dime a dozen and always crap. And I hate how smart they think they are.
Symbolism can add a lot of depth to a work, but you're correct in that it's unsuited for exploring complex issues in itself; it should be treated as an accent, not the main course. Though Snowpiercer (the movie at least) does realize this, at least to some degree -- the plot is about a class struggle, after all. Your objections seem to be more about the message being sent than about the medium being used to express the message.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Snowpiercer TV Series (TNT)
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2021, 09:48:18 AM »
Your objections seem to be more about the message being sent than about the medium being used to express the message.

My primary objection is about the execution. It's really stupid for how serious and self-respecting the movie is.

If I made a serious film about how cars are way better then horses, and then I had horses actually be monsters that shapeshift and eat people, thats the sort of thing Snowpiercer is.

Pat

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Re: Snowpiercer TV Series (TNT)
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2021, 10:50:52 AM »
Your objections seem to be more about the message being sent than about the medium being used to express the message.

My primary objection is about the execution. It's really stupid for how serious and self-respecting the movie is.

If I made a serious film about how cars are way better then horses, and then I had horses actually be monsters that shapeshift and eat people, thats the sort of thing Snowpiercer is.
I don't think your analogy quite works, but I agree that Snowpiercer fails in execution. It's one of those critical darlings that critics like for reasons that have little or nothing to do with being a good movie.

Edit: I'm curious to see if the show succeeds where the movie fails. Looks like TNT has only made the first half available on the web, though:
https://www.tntdrama.com/snowpiercer/watch-now
I might watch it on HBOMax. I have a code I plan to use in the next couple weeks.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2021, 11:11:42 AM by Pat »

Warder

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Re: Snowpiercer TV Series (TNT)
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2021, 06:23:49 PM »
Well, i watched the tv series. It is indeed good imho. Why do you ask?

Well, while the class warfare metaphor is there, one can ignore it for the issue that these people were never supposed to be in this situation to begin with. As i understand it, the lowest class are people who just forcefully boarded the train when it was first departing on its endless trek. The global warming was reaching horrible levels so the scientists decided to pull a hail mary, introducing a chemical process that basicly resulted in a nuclear winter analogue.

The Snowpiercer was not concieved as some cold fusion perpetuum mobile engine, it was one very rich mans personal project. The fact that the visionary had to be replaced almost instantly because he was a megalomaniac control freak is also another matter. The crux of the situation is, metaphor or no metaphor, the train is not some marvel, its a powder keg thats degrading while the people inside are all dealing with intense pressures. Its gonna stop eventually, either by exhausting the resources, parts or by that pesky human element. And it makes for some neat entertainment.

Trond

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Re: Snowpiercer TV Series (TNT)
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2021, 10:00:55 AM »
Well, i watched the tv series. It is indeed good imho. Why do you ask?


But you see....most people here argue that it can’t be because the movie was bad.  ;)

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Snowpiercer TV Series (TNT)
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2021, 04:11:34 AM »
But you see....most people here argue that it can’t be because the movie was bad.  ;)
I meant it more in the sense that the movie was stupendously STUPID so anything based on it has to swim upstream.

Its setting is suited for a film where a protagonist named 'Rex Powercolt' mows down 10,000 armed mooks and kills the conductor with a one-liner with something like 'Looks like your reservation got canceled'.
Not a serious film about class conflict or drama.

Unless the twist ending is that the Snowpiercer is where humans in enclosed fortresses (powered by friggin hydrogen reactors) send their idiots for exile.

Omega

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Re: Snowpiercer TV Series (TNT)
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2021, 10:31:21 PM »
It reads like they plucked ideas from Christopher Priest's Inverted World novel about people living on a huge city train that has to keep moving to stay inside a bubble of time on an alien world. They have to pull up the tracks behind and lay them ahead as the train plods along.
It also feels like it draws from a UK or Canadian TV series about stations and trains linking a frozen over earth as the last points of civilization. Cant remember the name though.