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Author Topic: She-Ra reboot has majority LGBTQ+ cast  (Read 7340 times)

deadDMwalking

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She-Ra reboot has majority LGBTQ+ cast
« Reply #60 on: March 18, 2019, 03:26:49 PM »
Setting aside whether anime fans have low standards (they often do), my 3-year-old and 7-year-old have enjoyed watching episodes.  I expect that there was a feeling that people who remember the show from the 1980s expected this version to be aimed at them, not squarely at the demographic they represented 30+ years ago.  

Quote from: CRKrueger;1073524
The character has to be compelling for some reason other than color and the genitals of them and their sexual partners.

The He-Man universe is not the one you want to be looking at for 'compelling characters'.  The series was intended to sell toys; it may be remembered fondly, but it doesn't have a lot of artistic merit.  Having any characterization beyond 'won't this make a cool action figure' is a step-up.  The differences that characters have from each other is what makes the story interesting.  Some of those differences can be opinions but some of them are doubtless about background and upbringing.  The 'grew up poor' character and the 'grew up rich' character are going to have different perceptions of how to handle situations, as is the 'part of the cool crowd' and 'part of the outsiders'.  Choosing character traits that resonate with people today isn't weird or wrong.

Quote from: rgalex;1075184
I'm kinda with Ratman_tf here.  It's very hard for me to look at any modern media and not have a huge heaping suspicion that characters are there for inclusion first and story second.

I don't know how you'd decide that.  It's a better chicken an egg question.  If the character represents a generally unrepresented group, there are almost by definition new story opportunities that haven't been explored before.  In an age of reboots a Batman that is openly gay is perhaps just as 'new' as a Batman that brands and kills criminals with a gun. Honestly, I have a pretty strong opinion about which one of those is 'twisting the original character' and it has nothing to do with sexuality.
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

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Ratman_tf

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« Reply #61 on: March 18, 2019, 04:48:09 PM »
Quote from: deadDMwalking;1079665
Setting aside whether anime fans have low standards (they often do), my 3-year-old and 7-year-old have enjoyed watching episodes.  I expect that there was a feeling that people who remember the show from the 1980s expected this version to be aimed at them, not squarely at the demographic they represented 30+ years ago.  



The He-Man universe is not the one you want to be looking at for 'compelling characters'.  The series was intended to sell toys; it may be remembered fondly, but it doesn't have a lot of artistic merit.  Having any characterization beyond 'won't this make a cool action figure' is a step-up.  The differences that characters have from each other is what makes the story interesting.  Some of those differences can be opinions but some of them are doubtless about background and upbringing.  The 'grew up poor' character and the 'grew up rich' character are going to have different perceptions of how to handle situations, as is the 'part of the cool crowd' and 'part of the outsiders'.  Choosing character traits that resonate with people today isn't weird or wrong.



I don't know how you'd decide that.  It's a better chicken an egg question.  If the character represents a generally unrepresented group, there are almost by definition new story opportunities that haven't been explored before.  In an age of reboots a Batman that is openly gay is perhaps just as 'new' as a Batman that brands and kills criminals with a gun. Honestly, I have a pretty strong opinion about which one of those is 'twisting the original character' and it has nothing to do with sexuality.

Dunno about twisting the original character.



I simply don't like it when they turn Batman into Gunman. May as well just call in the Punisher.
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Omega

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« Reply #62 on: March 20, 2019, 07:17:08 PM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1079677
Dunno about twisting the original character.
I simply don't like it when they turn Batman into Gunman. May as well just call in the Punisher.

So true. Batman has never needed a gun to kill all the criminals he has offed over the decades.

Warboss Squee

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« Reply #63 on: March 20, 2019, 10:57:06 PM »
Quote from: Omega;1080010
So true. Batman has never needed a gun to kill all the criminals he has offed over the decades.

I'm convinced that every doctor in the world has to do a year rotation through Gotham Metro Hospital to truly understand despair.

"Doctor, we have another Batman trauma!"

"Oh, goddamn it. Ok, where's the mop?"

Spinachcat

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« Reply #64 on: March 23, 2019, 07:54:33 PM »
Quote from: Brand55;1075499
If you're wanting deep world-building, you came to the wrong place. That's like hating Guardians of the Galaxy because it doesn't have enough musical numbers.


But Guardians has Mary Poppins y'all!!!

I personally find most world-building arguments useless. Most media doesn't make a shred of sense under critical examination. And almost any media series that goes on long enough breaks its own rules and canon.


Quote from: Ratman_tf;1075894
I am allowed to have an opinion, right?


Not for long. But enjoy it while you can.


Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1076730
Shlock is shlock.


You are right.

George Carlin dealt with this decades ago when he declared "My stuff is stuff. Your stuff is shit."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Numg_0dxiwk

For most fans, if we like something, it's art. If we don't like something, it's definitely shlock.


Quote from: deadDMwalking;1079665
Setting aside whether anime fans have low standards (they often do), my 3-year-old and 7-year-old have enjoyed watching episodes.  I expect that there was a feeling that people who remember the show from the 1980s expected this version to be aimed at them, not squarely at the demographic they represented 30+ years ago.


You are also right.

30 years ago, Japanese Anime may have been aimed at teens and adults, but American cartoons were aimed at children.

I'd love more adult oriented animation in the USA and I expect we will see growth in that genre (like Into the Spiderverse).

Ratman_tf

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The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Shrieking Banshee

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« Reply #66 on: August 28, 2020, 02:19:25 PM »
Also having missed the debate:

Stuff like Goblin Slayer, Shield Hero and Sword Art online is horrible garbage. Not because its edgy but because its immature trash. They are stupid, shallow, repetative, and follow the same sort of carnal misanthropic escapism desire. Every story has some level of escapism, but this is to an unhealthy degree.
I find myself having to defend them from Socjus destruction out of principle, but I have no love for such garbage.

As for She-Ra its a dime a dozen modern day show.

Edit:What I mean by that is Calarts Animation, gay pandering, shit designs and sappy melodrama. Modern Anime is Escapism for Eastern Misanthropes while modern cartoons are escapism for Western Misanthropes.

Il take the eastern stuff but only by a hairs worth.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2020, 02:23:53 PM by Shrieking Banshee »

Omega

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« Reply #67 on: August 30, 2020, 03:01:53 AM »
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1146798
Also having missed the debate:

Stuff like Goblin Slayer, Shield Hero and Sword Art online is horrible garbage. Not because its edgy but because its immature trash. They are stupid, shallow, repetative, and follow the same sort of carnal misanthropic escapism desire. Every story has some level of escapism, but this is to an unhealthy degree.

Actually Sword art and Shield Hero arent misanthropic escapism. Especially not Shield Hero. Try again please. Rather than just copy-pasting the usual hate screed from people who apparently never actually watched either show.

BoxCrayonTales

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« Reply #68 on: August 31, 2020, 02:02:18 PM »
Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1146798
Also having missed the debate:

Stuff like Goblin Slayer, Shield Hero and Sword Art online is horrible garbage. Not because its edgy but because its immature trash. They are stupid, shallow, repetative, and follow the same sort of carnal misanthropic escapism desire. Every story has some level of escapism, but this is to an unhealthy degree.
I find myself having to defend them from Socjus destruction out of principle, but I have no love for such garbage.

As for She-Ra its a dime a dozen modern day show.

Edit:What I mean by that is Calarts Animation, gay pandering, shit designs and sappy melodrama. Modern Anime is Escapism for Eastern Misanthropes while modern cartoons are escapism for Western Misanthropes.

Il take the eastern stuff but only by a hairs worth.


I agree with you except for one thing:

It's not gay pandering, it's queer baiting. The two prior established gay couples are minor characters who only appear in a handful of episodes. Adora and Catra only get together at the end and we don't actually see their romantic relationship develop, although I imagine it would be an abusive one considering Catra is a terrible person who abuses everyone around her. Noelle should have been in therapy, not writing a show to work through her relationship problems.

I'm disappointed that Double Trouble was never given an opportunity to theatrically introduce his/her/their pronouns. Something like Glimmer referring to them as a "he", then DT going into a speech about how "Oh honey, I am so much more than that. I am he, she, both, neither. I am they!" I found it rather unrealistic that everybody just psychically knows DT's preferred pronouns, as that is very much not the case in real life.

The hypocrisy from the showrunners is staggering. Entrapta is supposed to be autistic, but they never consulted actual autistic people to ensure her writing is respectful. I found her idiotic behavior in season 5 blatantly insulting (I am autistic myself, formally diagnosed and everything).

Quote from: Omega;1146951
Actually Sword art and Shield Hero arent misanthropic escapism. Especially not Shield Hero. Try again please. Rather than just copy-pasting the usual hate screed from people who apparently never actually watched either show.


Shield Hero is shallow wish fulfillment fantasy devoid of any redeeming values. It focuses on a sociopathic "hero" who grooms children into loyal slaves. The story romanticizes slavery and abusive relationships. All of the characters are shallow caricatures, especially the villains. It is very low hanging fruit.

Naofumi is a male version of Catra. They're abusive sociopaths with victim complexes who feel entitled to other people's affections and lose their shit when they don't get what they want. They obsess over getting revenge on those who spurned them. They never suffer any lasting consequences for their bad actions, but are instead vindicated by author fiat.

In other words, precisely the kinds of characters that self-absorbed teenagers identify with.

Ratman_tf

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« Reply #69 on: August 31, 2020, 04:06:21 PM »
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1147097
I agree with you except for one thing:

It's not gay pandering, it's queer baiting. The two prior established gay couples are minor characters who only appear in a handful of episodes. Adora and Catra only get together at the end and we don't actually see their romantic relationship develop, although I imagine it would be an abusive one considering Catra is a terrible person who abuses everyone around her. Noelle should have been in therapy, not writing a show to work through her relationship problems.

I'm disappointed that Double Trouble was never given an opportunity to theatrically introduce his/her/their pronouns. Something like Glimmer referring to them as a "he", then DT going into a speech about how "Oh honey, I am so much more than that. I am he, she, both, neither. I am they!" I found it rather unrealistic that everybody just psychically knows DT's preferred pronouns, as that is very much not the case in real life.

The hypocrisy from the showrunners is staggering. Entrapta is supposed to be autistic, but they never consulted actual autistic people to ensure her writing is respectful. I found her idiotic behavior in season 5 blatantly insulting (I am autistic myself, formally diagnosed and everything).



Shield Hero is shallow wish fulfillment fantasy devoid of any redeeming values. It focuses on a sociopathic "hero" who grooms children into loyal slaves. The story romanticizes slavery and abusive relationships. All of the characters are shallow caricatures, especially the villains. It is very low hanging fruit.

Naofumi is a male version of Catra. They're abusive sociopaths with victim complexes who feel entitled to other people's affections and lose their shit when they don't get what they want. They obsess over getting revenge on those who spurned them. They never suffer any lasting consequences for their bad actions, but are instead vindicated by author fiat.

In other words, precisely the kinds of characters that self-absorbed teenagers identify with.

What does any of that have to do with She-Ra fighting the Evil Horde? You make it sound like a shitshow of identity politics and not a fun kid's adventure show.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Shrieking Banshee

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« Reply #70 on: August 31, 2020, 08:04:23 PM »
Quote from: Omega;1146951
Actually Sword art and Shield Hero arent misanthropic escapism. Especially not Shield Hero. Try again please. Rather than just copy-pasting the usual hate screed from people who apparently never actually watched either show.

I meant the target demo ARE misanthropic Japanese otaku, rather then the shows being that misanthropic themselves.
If you wanna tangle with my knowledge of shitty anime tropes prepare to be destroyed.

Shrieking Banshee

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« Reply #71 on: August 31, 2020, 08:19:16 PM »
Also queerthirsters deserve to be queerbaited.

Dont be a representation simp. Representation thirst is a developed trait

Armchair Gamer

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« Reply #72 on: August 31, 2020, 10:00:40 PM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1147104
What does any of that have to do with She-Ra fighting the Evil Horde? You make it sound like a shitshow of identity politics and not a fun kid's adventure show.


Everything I've heard about the show--including the gushing over on TBP--makes it sound like 'progressive teen angst fest and shipping drama' is more what they were going for.

BoxCrayonTales

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Re: She-Ra reboot has majority LGBTQ+ cast
« Reply #73 on: September 01, 2020, 09:36:56 PM »
What does any of that have to do with She-Ra fighting the Evil Horde? You make it sound like a shitshow of identity politics and not a fun kid's adventure show.


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmDfRyqJ-jXHIgOXglCjJKuQL09gxsICf


I meant the target demo ARE misanthropic Japanese otaku, rather then the shows being that misanthropic themselves.
If you wanna tangle with my knowledge of shitty anime tropes prepare to be destroyed.
I find it nigh impossible to watch anime because it is full of casual sexual harassment, physical abuse, sexualized humiliation, panty shots of underage girls, and plenty other disgusting fetish material.


Like, I was watching Noragami this one time. In one episode the girl protagonist pervs on the unconscious and hospitalized boy protagonist by taking off his shirt and when he wakes up she viciously beats him for catching her in the act. The entire sequence is disgusting in the extreme, but the writing plays it for comedy.


Or take Made in Abyss. A recurring joke is that one of the protagonists, a combat android resembling a boy of ten or eleven years old, has a fully functional penis. What the fuck?


People nowadays like to say that anime is superior to western cartoons. They're not. They're just far more open about the fact that they're vehicles for the author's own perversions.


Also queerthirsters deserve to be queerbaited.

Dont be a representation simp. Representation thirst is a developed trait
Queer representation is a sick joke. Straight creators just shoehorn queer characters for brownie points from the SJWs, but otherwise treat them as afterthoughts (e.g. Korra, Voltron, Dragon Prince). Queer creators use queer characters as vehicles for dealing with their own untreated psychological problems, like their parents rejecting them (e.g. Steven Universe) or their spouse cheating on them (e.g. She-Ra).


Could we try hiring queer creators who aren't crazy and have actual experience?


Everything I've heard about the show--including the gushing over on TBP--makes it sound like 'progressive teen angst fest and shipping drama' is more what they were going for.
Yup. IIRC, the creator actually complained on twitter that action scenes are too hard to write and would prefer a kissing scene instead.

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: She-Ra reboot has majority LGBTQ+ cast
« Reply #74 on: September 01, 2020, 10:26:27 PM »
I find it nigh impossible to watch anime because it is full of casual sexual harassment, physical abuse, sexualized humiliation, panty shots of underage girls, and plenty other disgusting fetish material.
As a person who hates all the same sorts of things you hate I think your overblowing it. This is sort of like saying "Tom and Jerry is a sick animal abuse fantasy" or "Superman Teaches kids to solve all their problems with their fists".


But yes I hate all the shit your talking about, not even somuchso because Im disgusted by it, more...Sad and boring.
I don't think Loli likers are Pedos (Because they barely resemble children) but are more....depraved on ideas of a mix of lust+desire for being a parent.
Its also really really boring. These are 30+ year old gags being paraded around as if they are fresh every, fucking, time. Gags about the gags (The hight of innovation within this) are also like 25 years old.
I found the funniest gag about this sort of thing in Patlabor where the guy accidentally catches a downshirt shot of a girl, blushes!....And then looks away awkwardly but continues talking normally to her like a goddam adult. And thats 30+ years old. Patlabor is actually a fantastic show where it takes the mature route despite having a ctuesy exterior in every possible gag opportunity.


But yeah the fetish crap is also fucking shit. And the fetishes compound on themselves. I agree the made in the abyss grossed me out (outside of once again being pretty boring).


And as for honest about their kinks? The worst part is their not. Their like a GM making stories about magical realms. Just make some goddam hentais and jerk off in peace in the XXX section away from storylines or even attempts at characterization. Don't wrap your fetish shit in a thin veneer of plot to pretend your doing something else, and the people that wank to this stuff just say its for the porn and stop pretending its any deeper then that. But Japanese society as a whole is deeply, deeply unhealthy. This are going to come to a head there.


As for gayness Im of the opinion that I don't really care if they get represented or not. I don't think gay representation (or representation for any group in general) is a good trait for society. But Im glad you caught on how many of them just use it to piss off their parents when their given media.


Honestly Steven Universe is the only show to have ever offended my sensibilities on a deeply personal level (And its not the gay pandering that did it).