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Author Topic: She-Ra reboot has majority LGBTQ+ cast  (Read 7321 times)

Panjumanju

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She-Ra reboot has majority LGBTQ+ cast
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2019, 09:06:01 AM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1073526
And so we get these nitwits "making" established characters gay or bi or whatever, because they apparently can't write an interesting gay or bi character from scratch. They mooch off the popularity of an established character rather than putting in the effort and risk of creating a new character.

That's a problem systemic in all big-brand media right now: nothing can be new, only adapted. Comic books won't risk a new character, cinema fetishises sequels, etc.

In the 70s when everyone wanted kung fu, existing properties were adapted to give them kung fu, like James Bond. Now that marketing executives have decided there's an untapped market share in LGBTQ content, pre-existing content is adapted. That's entirely par for the course, even if it's not coming from a sincere artistic voice.

She-Ra was pretty low-hanging fruit for a more overt LGBTQ version. And there's nothing wrong with that that isn't wrong with all mass-media entertainment. If that's not what you want, there are alternatives...like role-playing games?

//Panjumanju
"What strength!! But don't forget there are many guys like you all over the world."
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Homebrew RPGs based on 80s toy properties I take too seriously:
Masters of the Universe RPG: https://app.box.com/s/bb9fjiuqb27s0vzqti53
The Transformers RPG: https://app.box.com/s/vaq6x35typiz9pltmxk6

nour

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« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2019, 10:53:05 AM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1065930
I assume you mean Teen Titans Go!
God, I'm sick of that style Tutuapp 9apps Showbox . It's the difference between a children's story that adults can enjoy with them, and a brain-dead cartoon that will mesmerize the kids while you go have a half-hour to yourself.

I totally agree,
For me the most unacceptable one is Clarence, it's litterally a retard that has no understanding of the most common things and we can see other kids also have some issues but not like him.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 01:28:41 PM by nour »

rgalex

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« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2019, 01:58:10 PM »
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1073563
So you're saying that all LGBTQ+ characters in modern media have to be original characters and established LGBTQ+ characters like Hercules, Loki, and Dorian Gray are off-limits because the writer is mooching off their popularity?

I disagree. I think you are moving the goalposts because, as you stated previously, you believe that nowadays including LGBTQ+ characters at all is a shoehorned political statement. In most cases it is and that offends LGBTQ+ viewers too. However, that doesn't apply to our current argument because it concerns the writing of a hypothetical story.

Japan doesn't have LGBTQ+ rights, yet their media includes whole genres predicated on unrealistically fetishing LGBTQ+ characters for the enjoyment of straight cis consumers. Boy's love, girl's love, traps, futanari, the list goes on.

You are claiming that politics has ruined LGBTQ+ storylines forever, despite the fact that there are currently countless novels and fanfiction which feature amazing characterization of LGBTQ+ characters. Based entirely on your political statements, I suspect you have been poisoned against the idea by the press. But I could easily be wrong. Are there any LGBTQ+ characters in fiction that don't offend you, that you actively enjoy reading their adventures?

I'm kinda with Ratman_tf here.  It's very hard for me to look at any modern media and not have a huge heaping suspicion that characters are there for inclusion first and story second.  It wasn't always like that.  To answer the question you asked Ratman_tf, here are some of the characters I like and enjoy reading/playing/watching:

TV/Movies

Capt. Jack Harkness and Ianto Jones (Torchwood)
Sam Adama (Caprica)
Gabrielle (Xena: Warrior Princess)
Lafayette Reynolds (True Blood)

Video Games
Lena "Tracer" Oxton (Overwatch)
Erica Anderson (Catherine)
Chloe Price (Life Is Strange)
Bunch of Characters where I get to choose

Comics
Shatterstar (X-Men)
Cassie Hack (HackSlash)
John Constantine (Hellblazer)
Sarah Rainmaker (Gen13)
Midnighter (Stormwatch)
Lisa Williams (Sunstone)
Ystin the Shining Knight (Seven Soldiers)

Manga/Anime
Luka Urushibara (Steins;Gate)
Ranma Saotome (Ranma ½)
Tomo (Fushigi Yugi)
Yuma and Hotaru (NTR: Netsuzou Trap)
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 02:11:10 PM by rgalex »

BoxCrayonTales

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« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2019, 05:57:21 PM »
That doesn't make the opposite political position any better. Countless right wingers have defended Shield Hero and Goblin Slayer (which are basically the right wing counterpart to She-Ra).

The Shield Hero web novel is... I cannot easily put it into words. Just read this brief review if you want details: http://blog.draggle.org/i-am-trash-part-ii/ (it's written by a dude who jerks off to catgirls, just so you know it isn't biased)

Goblin Slayer is grimderp and even gamers thought it was bad before the animegate fiasco: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Goblin_Slayer

Even if She-Ra is so bland I cannot remember watching, it didn't make me sick like Shield Hero and Goblin Slayer did.

Brand55

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« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2019, 07:52:44 PM »
As an impartial rebuttal for anyone interested, here are some numbers for those curious to know what the masses actually think about Shield Hero and Goblin Slayer:

Rising of the Shield Hero - 8.40/10, rated by 7,256 users (https://myanimelist.net/manga/67617/Tate_no_Yuusha_no_Nariagari)
Goblin Slayer - 8.08/10, rated by 15,156 users (https://myanimelist.net/manga/98720/Goblin_Slayer)

Most of those ratings and reviews go back several years before either series received an anime series and got wider recognition.

BoxCrayonTales

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« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2019, 09:56:15 PM »
Quote from: Brand55;1075390
As an impartial rebuttal for anyone interested, here are some numbers for those curious to know what the masses actually think about Shield Hero and Goblin Slayer:

Rising of the Shield Hero - 8.40/10, rated by 7,256 users (https://myanimelist.net/manga/67617/Tate_no_Yuusha_no_Nariagari)
Goblin Slayer - 8.08/10, rated by 15,156 users (https://myanimelist.net/manga/98720/Goblin_Slayer)

Most of those ratings and reviews go back several years before either series received an anime series and got wider recognition.
Impartial? Hardly. Everything on myanimelist is highly rated because otaku have shit standards.

The GS manga is literal rape porn and the SH web novel has the hero making a snuff film. The ratings are not indicative of quality or impartiality anymore than the ratings of the Twilight movies.

Brand55

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« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2019, 10:57:02 PM »
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1075400
Impartial? Hardly. Everything on myanimelist is highly rated because otaku have shit standards.

The GS manga is literal rape porn and the SH web novel has the hero making a snuff film. The ratings are not indicative of quality or impartiality anymore than the ratings of the Twilight movies.
It's impartial in the sense few if any of those people were deliberately going in with an ax to grind, unlike certain other sources. Some people didn't like the rape in Goblin Slayer and gave it low ratings, but tons of other people really enjoyed it. None of their opinions are invalid, they're just that -- opinions.

Also, I read all three Goblin Slayer titles. If you think those are rape porn, you really need to broaden your horizons. Go on YouTube and look up some reactions to the episode where it looks like the main party is about to be defeated and the goblins swarm over High Elf Archer. You won't see people getting turned on when she's being stripped. You're gonna see people looking horrified or yelling at the damn Dwarf Priest to get to her in time to save her. That's the key difference. The rape in something like La Blue Girl (an actual porn hentai) is used to titillate and get people off. In Goblin Slayer, it's meant to horrify. And it damn well works.

And just to add, I'm sure you'll be able to find a few people that really get off on the rape as it's depicted in Goblin Slayer, but then there's all kinds out there. You run into that in pretty much any fandom. There are some creepy corners even in something as innocuous as My Hero Academia. That's how we end up with sick stuff like Deku x Nomu and people drooling over Eri.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 11:08:11 PM by Brand55 »

BoxCrayonTales

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« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2019, 09:24:29 AM »
Quote from: Brand55;1075408
It's impartial in the sense few if any of those people were deliberately going in with an ax to grind, unlike certain other sources. Some people didn't like the rape in Goblin Slayer and gave it low ratings, but tons of other people really enjoyed it. None of their opinions are invalid, they're just that -- opinions.

Also, I read all three Goblin Slayer titles. If you think those are rape porn, you really need to broaden your horizons. Go on YouTube and look up some reactions to the episode where it looks like the main party is about to be defeated and the goblins swarm over High Elf Archer. You won't see people getting turned on when she's being stripped. You're gonna see people looking horrified or yelling at the damn Dwarf Priest to get to her in time to save her. That's the key difference. The rape in something like La Blue Girl (an actual porn hentai) is used to titillate and get people off. In Goblin Slayer, it's meant to horrify. And it damn well works.

And just to add, I'm sure you'll be able to find a few people that really get off on the rape as it's depicted in Goblin Slayer, but then there's all kinds out there. You run into that in pretty much any fandom. There are some creepy corners even in something as innocuous as My Hero Academia. That's how we end up with sick stuff like Deku x Nomu and people drooling over Eri.


Even if the raters were impartial they still have terrible taste. It's impossible for me to determine the actual quality of anime before watching because every single one is highly rated. Unsurprisingly, most of them turn out to be bad.

My sources didn't have axes to grind either. I deliberately cherrypicked to get the most right-wing sources I could find. 4chan is the bastion of the alt-right! So I asked them for opinions. Even they agree that GS and SH, like most anime, are mediocre trash that don't deserve the praise they receive. In between posting copious porn of it, anyhow.

As for GS... What I meant is that Kannatuki drew detailed rape scenes in the manga that look like hentai. How audiences react isn't my concern (although 4chan complained there wasn't enough rape). Even the original novel is still really creepy. It has an extreme and unrealistic "damaged goods" complex (almost every woman who is raped either dies or goes crazy); at one point the 20-something hero is cuddled by a 15 year old virgin as part of a perverse healing ritual. Did I mention the opening chapters/episode involve the systematic slaughter, mutilation and rape of 15 year olds?

Why is this being defended as high art? Because it's dark and edgy? It's immature is what it is.

I've brought this up before, but GS has bad world building and idiot characters. Goblins are slaughtering villages left and right, but nobody is concerned at all and no explanation is provided except adventurers only care about big money. At one point the major city the Adventure Guild HQ is physically located at is going to be destroyed by a goblin army, but absolutely none of the adventurers inside the building care because they aren't being paid. They don't even bother to leave before the goblins arrive, and I fully expect they would have just stood there while the goblins killed them. That is Invader Zim-levels of stupid.

The irony here is that the GS novel was, according to some sources I cannot verify, intended to be a satire. Boy did that go over everyone's heads if that be the case.

SH is more or less identical to all the other Sword Art Online clones that preceded it. Creepiness and all. It really isn't special aside from the controversy over hero being metoo'd ("metoo" is now slang verb for being falsely accused of rape). It isn't even as extreme as all the entertaining stories where the vengeful "hero" goes on an indiscriminate mass killing spree. The editor clearly reigned in the author's creepy fetishes so the comic/show could appeal to the horny teenage boys (and manchildren) that most anime exported to the West nowadays is aimed at.

Those are both really low hanging fruit, and that's precisely why the high ratings and spirited defenses against teh sjw are so frustrating. (Somebody actually called me a sociopath for refusing to sympathize with Shield Hero after the the snuff scenes and the creepy slavery apologism turned me off.)

Let's not equivocate: Goblin Slayer and Shield Hero are just the male demographic equivalent of Twilight and Fifty Shades. It is hypocritical to denigrate She-Ra yet exalt Goblin Slayer and Shield Hero. They're equally shitty in different ways, like the world building is nonsense, everyone acts like idiots, and the authors are clearly perverts.

Brand55

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« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2019, 11:57:14 AM »
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1075480
Even if the raters were impartial they still have terrible taste. It's impossible for me to determine the actual quality of anime before watching because every single one is highly rated. Unsurprisingly, most of them turn out to be bad.
Not quite. From what I've seen the scale on MAL isn't quite the one that I'd use, but not everything gets a high score. It's not like Boku no Pico or the new Berserk are rocking especially high marks. In general, something with a score of 7 to 8 is very flawed or very niche but might still be really entertaining. 8 to 9 is likely good if you're into the genre. And 9+ is likely some of the best in the genre or has a very wide audience (stuff like FMA Brotherhood or Your Name). Plus, if you actually look at the reviews for something like Goblin Slayer, you'll see that there are a range of numbers. Not every review is a 9 or 10.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1075480
My sources didn't have axes to grind either. I deliberately cherrypicked to get the most right-wing sources I could find. 4chan is the bastion of the alt-right! So I asked them for opinions. Even they agree that GS and SH, like most anime, are mediocre trash that don't deserve the praise they receive. In between posting copious porn of it, anyhow.
First, 4chan is hardly right-wing. Depending on what board you're hanging out on, it can be quite liberal. I've seen people of all stripes over there. If I was going to pick any one word to describe it, I'd use "anarchic." Second, your link to the wiki was factually wrong. Which isn't surprising since it cobbled together from a bunch of info pulled mostly from anons, most of whom were likely shit-posting or had little knowledge of the source material. For instance, GS isn't a hentai. Period. There are no genitals. You get exposed breasts during a handful of explicit scenes, but that's it. It's ecchi, not porn.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1075480
As for GS... What I meant is that Kannatuki drew detailed rape scenes in the manga that look like hentai. How audiences react isn't my concern (although 4chan complained there wasn't enough rape). Even the original novel is still really creepy. It has an extreme and unrealistic "damaged goods" complex (almost every woman who is raped either dies or goes crazy); at one point the 20-something hero is cuddled by a 15 year old virgin as part of a perverse healing ritual. Did I mention the opening chapters/episode involve the systematic slaughter, mutilation and rape of 15 year olds?
This is not the place to do a comparison, but if you actually went and looked at actual hentai you would see the difference. And audience reaction is entirely the point. If one scene gets people turned on and the other makes them horrified, then how can you claim those two scenes are the same?

The fact it was a young group of inexperienced noobies that get slaughtered at the start of the series is what makes it so horrific. And later when it nearly happens to HEA, someone the reader/watcher has likely grown to really like, it's even worse. As for the resurrection spell, GS just had to share a bed with Priestess for Sword Maiden to cast the spell. In this world 15 is an adult (as it was for much of our world throughout its history) and Priestess was happy to help heal GS. Is that really an issue?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1075480
Why is this being defended as high art? Because it's dark and edgy? It's immature is what it is.
It's not. I've never seen it proclaimed as high art. It's a fun tale about slaughtering horrible monsters while we wait to see if the main character progresses from the utterly broken state he's in when we first meet him.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1075480
I've brought this up before, but GS has bad world building and idiot characters. Goblins are slaughtering villages left and right, but nobody is concerned at all and no explanation is provided except adventurers only care about big money. At one point the major city the Adventure Guild HQ is physically located at is going to be destroyed by a goblin army, but absolutely none of the adventurers inside the building care because they aren't being paid. They don't even bother to leave before the goblins arrive, and I fully expect they would have just stood there while the goblins killed them. That is Invader Zim-levels of stupid.
I hate to tell you this, but you've been badly misinformed. Setting aside for the moment that we're talking about a frontier town (not a major city) and that it's been established that the gods are specifically mucking around with things so that no side controls everything too much, you've got the scene with the adventurers all wrong. The town wasn't about to be attacked, a farm was. Many didn't believe Goblin Slayer about the size of the horde, and it had been well established that goblins weren't seen as a major threat. As for payment, that's how the system works. Spearman outright tells GS to post a quest if he wants help then agrees to help if GS will buy him a drink since he's trying to keep up his image. The others only get paid because Guild Girl went ahead and had the guild post a reward on goblin heads. A number of the side characters were clearly willing to help even before money was brought into the picture, but when Guild Girl mentioned the bounty everyone else got on board. We never even got to see if the nameless adventurers would have jumped in without any compensation since there wasn't really a chance for that.

I could go on about the world but it's pointless. This isn't a series about economics and political ties. It's about slaying goblins and the character interactions. If you're wanting deep world-building, you came to the wrong place. That's like hating Guardians of the Galaxy because it doesn't have enough musical numbers.

As for Rising of the Shield Hero, I haven't read or seen it so I won't comment on it.

Anyway, I'm not really trying to change your mind, just correct some mistakes. You don't like some series? Cool, no problem. I was just pointing out some alternate opinions since I do happen to like the series and thought anyone interested might like seeing a variety of opinions on it, both good and bad.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 01:55:11 PM by Brand55 »

BoxCrayonTales

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« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2019, 05:12:25 PM »
Quote from: Brand55;1075499
Not quite. From what I've seen the scale on MAL isn't quite the one that I'd use, but not everything gets a high score. It's not like Boku no Pico or the new Berserk are rocking especially high marks. In general, something with a score of 7 to 8 is very flawed or very niche but might still be really entertaining. 8 to 9 is likely good if you're into the genre. And 9+ is likely some of the best in the genre or has a very wide audience (stuff like FMA Brotherhood or Your Name). Plus, if you actually look at the reviews for something like Goblin Slayer, you'll see that there are a range of numbers. Not every review is a 9 or 10.


First, 4chan is hardly right-wing. Depending on what board you're hanging out on, it can be quite liberal. I've seen people of all stripes over there. If I was going to pick any one word to describe it, I'd use "anarchic." Second, your link to the wiki was factually wrong. Which isn't surprising since it cobbled together from a bunch of info pulled mostly from anons, most of whom were likely shit-posting or had little knowledge of the source material. For instance, GS isn't a hentai. Period. There are no genitals. You get exposed breasts during a handful of explicit scenes, but that's it. It's ecchi, not porn.


This is not the place to do a comparison, but if you actually went and looked at actual hentai you would see the difference. And audience reaction is entirely the point. If one scene gets people turned on and the other makes them horrified, then how can you claim those two scenes are the same?

The fact it was a young group of inexperienced noobies that get slaughtered at the start of the series is what makes it so horrific. And later when it nearly happens to HEA, someone the reader/watcher has likely grown to really like, it's even worse. As for the resurrection spell, GS just had to share a bed with Priestess for Sword Maiden to cast the spell. In this world 15 is an adult (as it was for much of our world throughout its history) and Priestess was happy to help heal GS. Is that really an issue?


It's not. I've never seen it proclaimed as high art. It's a fun tale about slaughtering horrible monsters while we wait to see if the main character progresses from the utterly broken state he's in when we first meet him.


I hate to tell you this, but you've been badly misinformed. Setting aside for the moment that we're talking about a frontier town (not a major city) and that it's been established that the gods are specifically mucking around with things so that no side controls everything too much, you've got the scene with the adventurers all wrong. The town wasn't about to be attacked, a farm was. Many didn't believe Goblin Slayer about the size of the horde, and it had been well established that goblins weren't seen as a major threat. As for payment, that's how the system works. Spearman outright tells GS to post a quest if he wants help then agrees to help if GS will buy him a drink since he's trying to keep up his image. The others only get paid because Guild Girl went ahead and had the guild post a reward on goblin heads. A number of the side characters were clearly willing to help even before money was brought into the picture, but when Guild Girl mentioned the bounty everyone else got on board. We never even got to see if the nameless adventurers would have jumped in without any compensation since there wasn't really a chance for that.

I could go on about the world but it's pointless. This isn't a series about economics and political ties. It's about slaying goblins and the character interactions. If you're wanting deep world-building, you came to the wrong place. That's like hating Guardians of the Galaxy because it doesn't have enough musical numbers.

As for Rising of the Shield Hero, I haven't read or seen it so I won't comment on it.

Anyway, I'm not really trying to change your mind, just correct some mistakes. You don't like some series? Cool, no problem. I was just pointing out some alternate opinions since I do happen to like the series and thought anyone interested might like seeing a variety of opinions on it, both good and bad.


You are right, I suppose. I don't have a problem with GS per se, but all the people defending it against entirely valid albeit unnecessary criticism. You may not have heard them, but I saw loads come out of the woodwork when the twitter storm erupted.

GS is shlocky as hell and doesn't even pretend to be realistic. It reads more like a satire of generic D&D campaigns and the general immaturity and tone-deafness of most grimdark fiction than serious grimdark fiction. Critics criticize it at face value, clearly missing the satire.

Defenders irrationally claim all criticism is wrong and the critics are all stupid SJWs, NPCs, blah blah blah. They take the satire at face value and devise elaborate justifications for the excessive amounts of violence and sexual assault. Google "thermian argument" if you want to understand the problem here.

The story itself actually mocks the thermian argument and the rapey grimdark genre by making the setting itself a literal game of D&D played out between what I assume is a pair of teenage boys going through their emo phase. The one who made the goblins introduced the rape because he could. It reads like a meta-commentary on all those edgelord DMs who casually describe monsters as rapists.

There's a youtube video where a well-known Asian D&D player criticizes the world building of GS as nonsensical. He doesn't mention anything about the sexual violence, but focuses purely on the logistics. The short of it is that the goblins kill humans faster than humans reproduce and therefore should have wiped out humanity ages ago. "Realistically", the show should be about goblin wars and not a single goblin slayer. The comments are full of people calling him a loony SJW without any integrity.

SH callously trivializes rape and slavery. Real life rape politics are fucked up. The overwhelming majority of rapists are never prosecuted. Racists historically used false rape accusations to lynch innocent black men. Rape is considered the greatest evil, prison justice, and the punchline of jokes. Nobody believes that men can raped (outside prison) despite men being raped all the time. SH uses a false rape accusation as a cheap plot enabler to justify why the hero has no problem with using slaves, and said slaves are happy to be enslaved because hero is such a kind master. To add insult to injury, the show is apparently a hit with victims of false witnesses cases and their friends, who seemingly have no problem sympathizing with a literal slaveowner.

In Japan, these animes are literally aimed at horny teenage boys and socially maladjusted men who cannot form healthy relationships with women. Japanese people take this for granted. They don't defend what they see as emotional porn.

If the anti-sjws weren't making such a big deal about how these shows shouldn't be criticized as the silly fantasies they are, I wouldn't care about SH or GS. There are hundreds of other cartoons/comics that are just as bad or worse but receive zero media attention.

In Overlord, the protagonist is the leader of a dungeon full of evil monsters. Two of his lieutenants are rapists. One of them runs rape farms trying to breed better slaves.

Loads of people have criticized Overlord for centering on the exploits of such grotesque villains. Yet the anti-sjw brigade has not attempted to defend the show against these criticisms, but kindly rebuffed them as "that's too bad, but your revulsion is perfectly valid and I respect it as such."

Defenders of GS and SH claim that rape goblins and slavemaster heroes are "deep" and "important" and that critics are stupid.

I don't understand this phenomenon of defending intentional shlock. It frustrates me.

Omega

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« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2019, 10:35:41 PM »
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1075367
That doesn't make the opposite political position any better. Countless right wingers have defended Shield Hero and Goblin Slayer (which are basically the right wing counterpart to She-Ra).

The Shield Hero web novel is... I cannot easily put it into words. Just read this brief review if you want details: http://blog.draggle.org/i-am-trash-part-ii/ (it's written by a dude who jerks off to catgirls, just so you know it isn't biased)

Goblin Slayer is grimderp and even gamers thought it was bad before the animegate fiasco: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Goblin_Slayer

Even if She-Ra is so bland I cannot remember watching, it didn't make me sick like Shield Hero and Goblin Slayer did.


Still on that little kick huh? You love being proven wrong over and over done you? Try again please.

Brand55

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« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2019, 11:02:06 PM »
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1075741
There's a youtube video where a well-known Asian D&D player criticizes the world building of GS as nonsensical. He doesn't mention anything about the sexual violence, but focuses purely on the logistics. The short of it is that the goblins kill humans faster than humans reproduce and therefore should have wiped out humanity ages ago. "Realistically", the show should be about goblin wars and not a single goblin slayer. The comments are full of people calling him a loony SJW without any integrity.
The main thing I can say about stuff like that is that the Internet sucks. You're always going to have people wanting to be argumentative or stir the pot, either because they feel they have to protect their views at all costs or they just like fucking with people. It sucks, but there's nothing to be done about it.

I like Goblin Slayer. I like the brutal action and darker tone; they're a nice change of pace from the 10 million light-hearted series out there. But I'd also never claim it to be a perfect series or expect everyone to like those elements, either.

Seriously looking at it, the world of GS wouldn't work if you're going on the assumption that what we're seeing is the norm. The problem I see with that assumption is that we're only getting a look at one corner of the world in one (two, technically) brief moments in time, and it's outright stated that the gods interfere to keep things interesting. It's strongly suggested that goblins come from one of the moons, so it takes something to bring them down to the planet in the first place. We don't know if the goblins have to worry about other predators besides adventurers keeping their numbers in check. We don't know their lifespans, or if their numbers rise and fall periodically (thus making the period we're seeing one with higher-than-normal goblin activity), or if they start in-fighting if their numbers get too high. There could be a lot of factors that keep goblins from overrunning humanity out on the frontier where the series takes place, but we just don't have enough information to say why they don't.

Oh, and Overlord. I actually was looking into checking out the anime series but I heard it took a really ugly turn in season 3 so I'm sort of on the fence on it. I'll probably still watch it someday but for now I have far too much stuff I'm more interested in.

Ratman_tf

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She-Ra reboot has majority LGBTQ+ cast
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2019, 04:41:58 PM »
Quote from: Panjumanju;1075158
That's a problem systemic in all big-brand media right now: nothing can be new, only adapted. Comic books won't risk a new character, cinema fetishises sequels, etc.

In the 70s when everyone wanted kung fu, existing properties were adapted to give them kung fu, like James Bond. Now that marketing executives have decided there's an untapped market share in LGBTQ content, pre-existing content is adapted. That's entirely par for the course, even if it's not coming from a sincere artistic voice.

She-Ra was pretty low-hanging fruit for a more overt LGBTQ version. And there's nothing wrong with that that isn't wrong with all mass-media entertainment. If that's not what you want, there are alternatives...like role-playing games?

//Panjumanju


I'll bet there were people who thought the kung-fu craze was pandering.
There's an undercurrent of politics to this LGBTQIAMNOP stuff that makes it especially distatesful.
So hey, I'll be the grumpy old man who yells at clouds over this topic. I am allowed to have an opinion, right?
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2019, 04:45:51 PM »
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1075367
That doesn't make the opposite political position any better. Countless right wingers have defended Shield Hero and Goblin Slayer (which are basically the right wing counterpart to She-Ra).


It's difficult to discuss shows I know so little about. Do you have examples of right wingers defending these series?
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2019, 03:53:34 PM »
Quote from: Omega;1075781
Still on that little kick huh? You love being proven wrong over and over done you? Try again please.
Okay, fine, I was wrong. I really regret getting into arguments with you. Happy now?

GS and SH are generic wish fulfillment shlock in a vast sea of shlock that is the light novel market. Getting bent out of shape over them is stupid.

That still doesn't make you right or better for defending them. Shlock is shlock.

I wouldn't defend Gamerz Heaven as high art for gang raping the villain twice in the supplementary materials. It's porn.

Quote from: Brand55;1075788
The main thing I can say about stuff like that is that the Internet sucks. You're always going to have people wanting to be argumentative or stir the pot, either because they feel they have to protect their views at all costs or they just like fucking with people. It sucks, but there's nothing to be done about it.

I like Goblin Slayer. I like the brutal action and darker tone; they're a nice change of pace from the 10 million light-hearted series out there. But I'd also never claim it to be a perfect series or expect everyone to like those elements, either.

Seriously looking at it, the world of GS wouldn't work if you're going on the assumption that what we're seeing is the norm. The problem I see with that assumption is that we're only getting a look at one corner of the world in one (two, technically) brief moments in time, and it's outright stated that the gods interfere to keep things interesting. It's strongly suggested that goblins come from one of the moons, so it takes something to bring them down to the planet in the first place. We don't know if the goblins have to worry about other predators besides adventurers keeping their numbers in check. We don't know their lifespans, or if their numbers rise and fall periodically (thus making the period we're seeing one with higher-than-normal goblin activity), or if they start in-fighting if their numbers get too high. There could be a lot of factors that keep goblins from overrunning humanity out on the frontier where the series takes place, but we just don't have enough information to say why they don't.

Oh, and Overlord. I actually was looking into checking out the anime series but I heard it took a really ugly turn in season 3 so I'm sort of on the fence on it. I'll probably still watch it someday but for now I have far too much stuff I'm more interested in.
You give GS way too much credit, way more than it deserves. The "it was a game all along" thing pretty much destroyed my already broken suspension of disbelief.

If you want a game between two omnipotent beings, one good and one evil, Drifters is way better written and vastly more subversive of overused fantasy tropes.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1075894
I'll bet there were people who thought the kung-fu craze was pandering.
There's an undercurrent of politics to this LGBTQIAMNOP stuff that makes it especially distatesful.
So hey, I'll be the grumpy old man who yells at clouds over this topic. I am allowed to have an opinion, right?
To be fair, most of the representation is bad from the other side's POV because studios have literal mandates not to include genuine gay representation to avoid offending bigots because they want to air their cartoons in countries where gay people are executed for existing. This has been outrighted stated in numerous interviews over the years. Studios are hypocrites who want to sound progressive by claiming to support the gay community while refusing to actually speak out against the ongoing gay holocaust and even profiting off it.

Even She-Ra suffers the same problem despite the showrunner herself being gay. If Catra was instead Catro, he would be written with obvious romantic overtures to Adora and Scorpina. Dreamworks literally told the showrunner to keep the gays in the closet to avoid offending bigots.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1075897
It's difficult to discuss shows I know so little about. Do you have examples of right wingers defending these series?
There really isn't much to discuss. But if you really want details:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/the-anti-anime-left-is-garbage-and-heres-why-dont-let-the-alt-right-claim-anime-stuff-about-orientalism.97504/
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/rise-of-the-shield-hero-more-like-rise-of-edgy-revenge-isekais.725005/
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/goblin-slayer-ideas-discussions-and-reccomendations.647963/

Long story short, lots of anime is creepy fetish wish fulfillment. Somehow the twitter outrage mob remained ignorant of this until GS and SH came along. Both prominently and callously featured gratuitous rape, corrective rape, attempted rape and/or false rape accusations as key plot points. This places them only marginally worse than many other anime in recent years, which commonly feature protagonists casually engaging in sexual harassment and assault (e.g. "How Not to Summon a Demon Lord"). Angry nerds came out of the woodwork to defend these magical realms as high art deserving of praise.

GS is apparently supposed to be a satire of how RPGs treat goblins as canon fodder, but in practice is about women being raped and bred by goblins for shock value in between scenes of generic happy go lucky anime hijinks.

SH is about a dude being metoo'd by an evil princess and then buying a harem of slaves to get revenge on the filthy whore who accused him, but his slave girls convince him to give up on revenge and build a retreat where they can live in blissful servitude.

It is difficult to determine the political views of the defenders, but whenever it comes up their defenses are just knee-jerk reactions to the twitter outrage mob. So I can only assume they are right leaning, but I could be wrong.

"Showing underage girls being raped for your entertainment is distateful." "Goblins have to rape underage girls to show how evil they are."

"Goblins are eerily reminiscent of racist propaganda about foreigners/martians/whatever wanting our women designed to appeal to the Id." "Sometimes a rape monster is just a rape monster, not a metaphor for the Other."

"The evil princess deserves to be literally raped to death." "Rape is never an acceptable punishment for any crime."

"Slaves being happy with enslavement is literally Confederate propaganda." "Hero needs to use slaves to show how emotionally damaged he is."

"Depicting false rape accusations as the ignition of a revenge story may incite courts to disbelieve rape survivors slightly more than they already do." "Disbelieving false rape accusations takes precedence over prosecuting rapists."

"It cannot be a commentary on #MeToo because it was made in 2013, and it cannot be sexist because the anonymous author uses a vaguely feminine pseudonym." "Crunchyroll funded it and should have realized it needed censoring to avoid causing needless controversy, unless they wanted the publicity in today's clickbait dystopia."

Mud slinging, mud slinging, mud slinging. Strawmen everywhere on both sides. Everybody makes fools of themselves.

It basically boils down to women being objectified as part of the virgin/whore complex. Virgins are objects of affection. Whores are objects of pity or scorn. None of this casual objectification of women is new for anime. Whole genres of anime make money by selling twisted wish fulfillment fantasies to socially maladjusted perverts. What is strange is that twitter is only calling it out now.

I got into arguments over this while I was still high on painkillers recovering from a car crash and that colored my interactions a lot. I made myself look like an idiot by taking them remotely seriously and I'm still trying to shake the stigma. But to be honest everybody who argues over this trash looks foolish. GS and SH simply don't merit critique or defense because they are trashy wish fulfillment stories in a vast capitalist sea of similar stories that will be quickly forgotten in favor of another fad.