Quote from: Nexus;936426We should remember that darkest, most mature Star Wars movie was clearly: The Force Awakens....





Edit: What the Hell is Stat Wars, some kind of PC generation app?

But it's, like, an upside-down cross, so they're being chased by a Klan Satanist!  So much edge, it's monomolecular!  

I do believe I enjoyed Rogue One more than The Force Awakens.  I did think that Diego Luna's accent was a little difficult to work with, but it could have been worse.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;936658If we really must impose a point, I guess it would be, "Time and money are finite, movies are just entertainment, so use whatever method you like for deciding what to see. Hollywood won't collapse without your little fistful of dollars, trust me."

I'll accept that, and add "and if the movie doesn't fit entirely in the preconceived box you created in your own mind for it, maybe just relax and let the movie be what it is."

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;936658Tesla (an actual genius who actually existed and used actual science), tesla lightning machines, ageing moustachioed Bowie and in-character hyperbole about "real magic" in a story blatantly about showmanship were apparently interpreted by a very large segment of people as real things that can easily fit into period pieces. One mustn't forget how grounded the first two thirds of the film feels either. I knew of the genre shift in advance, but I can easily see how one could go in thinking there might be something slightly supra-natural, get lulled into a false sense of dependability, then get whiplash from the swerve.

I dunno man, go watch the trailers again, if the possibility "Real Magic" hits someone like it just fell out of the sky, then someone wasn't paying attention.  If they never saw the trailers, then having a hidebound preconception is their problem. I don't have a problem with someone not liking it, it's the bitching and giving flak part because they weren't consulted that irks me.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;936658Some people read a synopsis, see a trailer, and have only a faint knowledge of Nolan as some hot property before making a casual Friday evening entertainment plan.

If they're gonna cry after the fact that the movie head-faked them, then they need to Handle.Their.Own.Shit and do some research.  Million Dollar Baby didn't originate as a screenplay, it was published short stories.  I really don't have many topics that would automatically flag a movie as a No-Go, but if I did, I would make sure a movie didn't have those before I went in.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;936658You can trick or cajole me into watching Requiem for a Dream, and I can even have the intellectual honesty to openly acknowledge its superior craftsmanship, but you can't make me enjoy it, and I'd be a little miffed if you judged me for not enjoying it. No one owes movies anything, even good movies.

I'll watch anything with Jennifer Connolly in it, and you'd think any movie that had a "Jennifer Connolly Double-Headed Dildo" scene would be queued up and ready to go 24/7/365 but I probably won't see that movie again, no matter how well-crafted, just like Magnolia.  Once was enough to go through, but I did see them and I certainly appreciated them, and enjoyed the, as you put it, craftsmanship.  Seven is another one that's tough, but I did thoroughly enjoy that as a thriller, and I will watch that movie again simply for the acting.  Kevin Spacey on fire is hard not to watch, let alone Gywneth Paltrow, Morgan Freeman, Brad Pitt and god bless him even Sgt. Ermey killed it.  I do feel bad for the one college girl who was at the first showing at the theatre I went to, her two friends had to practically carry her out, she was nearly hysterical from crying.

Quote from: Nexus;936643Good points and "Million Dollar Baby" is a great example. Its a well made movie but takes a drastic swerve in genre and tone. .

I think it was a huge plot turn, but I don't think the tone or genre changed. It was pretty consistent. I think where it fakes people out, is they think this is going to be a female rocky story (though worth remembering he lost in the first one). Personally thought it was a great movie, and part of the reason is, it keeps going against where you think it will go toward the end.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;936764I think it was a huge plot turn, but I don't think the tone or genre changed. It was pretty consistent. I think where it fakes people out, is they think this is going to be a female rocky story (though worth remembering he lost in the first one). Personally thought it was a great movie, and part of the reason is, it keeps going against where you think it will go toward the end.

The swerve was that at least some viewers went in expecting a female Rocky story but got something more akin to Raging Bull with a dark ending. I didn't mean to imply that the film suddenly changed course in midstream. I was talking about expectation going in and how they can affect an individuals reaction to a piece of media.  It was a well done movie (IMO) but it did catch some of the audience off guard. Some people enjoy that, others don't which can depend on other factors.

Edit: I saw it after being told what to expect from the general tone. I can't say how I would have felt about the movie if I'd went into it cold.

Quote from: Nexus;936774The swerve was that viewers, some of them at least, went in expecting a female Rocky story but got something more akin to Raging Bull and surprisingly dark ending. I didn't mean to imply that the film suddenly changed course in midstream but about expectation going in. As I said it was a well done movie but it did catch some of the audience off guard. Some people enjoy that, others don't which can depend on other factors.

I understand this point and I think it is one of the reasons why I enjoyed Rogue One so much, I went in to the movie without any expectations other than it would be a movie set in the Star Wars universe.

Quote from: Opaopajr;935927Oh, it has been a long time since I've seen a good film within the Star Wars franchise! (I think the last one may have been the second Ewoks movie?) After all these years (... decades,) I am actually looking forward to watching a Star Wars film.

Battle for Endor? That was a surprisingly bleak movie.

Rogue One has the distinction of being the first self contained story in any Star Wars movie since the first one. Yes, there are references to other movies, but no requirement to have to watch them in order for it to make sense. For that reason, along with the diversity and cinematography of each planetary setting and the likability of the characters, it's my favourite Star Wars movie since the first one.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;936954Rogue One has the distinction of being the first self contained story in any Star Wars movie since the first one.

Not quite. Ewok Adventure was self contained. (And some wish it had stayed that way. yeesh the second movie was not nice.)

Quote from: Omega;936988Not quite. Ewok Adventure was self contained. (And some wish it had stayed that way. yeesh the second movie was not nice.)

I don't think I've ever seen the ewok movies. Hell, just the Doug Walker abridged version of the Holiday Special was bad enough.

Quote from: Omega;936988Not quite. Ewok Adventure was self contained. (And some wish it had stayed that way. yeesh the second movie was not nice.)

Oh no, the repressed memories are coming back....

Yeah, not nice.

Folks might not have been drawing the "Vietnam in Space" descriptor from thin air.

http://screencrush.com/rogue-one-vietnam/

Quote from: Nexus;937608Folks might not have been drawing the "Vietnam in Space" descriptor from thin air.

http://screencrush.com/rogue-one-vietnam/

Neat article, but in it the movie was pitched as a War Film and not specifically as "Vietnam in Space". Did you even read the article?

Quote from: Omega;936930Battle for Endor? That was a surprisingly bleak movie.

Yes it was! It was great.

Caravan of Courage: Ewok Adventure was great in a "Willow," "Legend," "Dark Crystal," self-contained Endor cosmology sense. So was Ewoks: Battle for Endor, but more people and ewoks die, and there's a mix of outside sci-fi with native Endor fantasy. It really breathed life in the idea that each world under the empire, even 'aboriginal backwaters', were lived in places with their own mysteries.

They are for children, yes, but they are actually very well done. Hmm, 70s and 80s children entertainment was quite fucking dark now that I think about it...

Quote from: Opaopajr;937972Yes it was! It was great.

Caravan of Courage: Ewok Adventure was great in a "Willow," "Legend," "Dark Crystal," self-contained Endor cosmology sense. So was Ewoks: Battle for Endor, but more people and ewoks die, and there's a mix of outside sci-fi with native Endor fantasy. It really breathed life in the idea that each world under the empire, even 'aboriginal backwaters', were lived in places with their own mysteries.

They are for children, yes, but they are actually very well done. Hmm, 70s and 80s children entertainment was quite fucking dark now that I think about it...

As A man who grew up on that stuff yes it was, though that's much of why they where so good as the plots can be enjoyed from an adult perspective. Most modern kids shows IMHO ether water them selves down to far or are trying to hard to "child safe".