Quote from: Chainsaw;936057In my opinion, the battles scenes in Rogue One are nothing like Saving Private Ryan, Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, Hamburger Hill, Black Hawk Down (etc). Frankly, I'm shocked that anyone would make that comparison. I think the scenes are very consistent with what's shown in Episodes IV and V, which means more serious than Episode VI and certainly more serious than the cartoon-like action of the prequels.


I don't see it as "darker" than Empire. At the end of Empire, it's not clear the Rebellion really has any chance at all. Lando betrays everyone, Solo's been captured, Luke gets his horrible news about his dad who then cuts off his hand and the Empire seems pretty much unbeatable. How is that not darker than the ragtag rebels winning a great battle and securing a way to defeat Empire's most powerful weapon?

Spoiler

Context matters. They knew it was a suicide mission with almost no chance of succeeding, but they chose to do it anyway and then pulled it off - it's super heroic! I thought the ending was uplifting in a meaningful way precisely BECAUSE the heroes sacrificed themselves. Reminded me of when Ben sacrifices himself against Vader so that Luke and company could escape the Death Star in Episode IV. Classic!

To be clear, I really have zero concern over whether you watch the movie or like it, I'm just commenting on what I view as misleading statements or mischaracterizations that may have been passed on to you.

Fair enough. No sense in arguing preferences. I will say this though one of the reasons I'd find it darker than Empire is that spoiler.

Quote from: CRKrueger;936077More major bigtime spoilers

Spoiler

In Deep Impact when Tea Leoni and her Father die together on the beach from the wave as the asteroid hits, having finally rediscovered each other and are a family again, is that dark or uplifting?

I skipped Deep Impact for the similar reasons I will be skipping Rogue One. But yeah, that's dark as Hell and in no way uplifting (IMO).

If I had it to over again, I likely wouldn't see Empire in the theater but eventually catch it later for completeness sake. Really it doesn't sound as depressing as Rogue One which is not what I want from Star Wars.

Quote from: Nexus;936095I skipped Deep Impact for the similar reasons to why I will be skipping Rogue One. But yeah, that's dark as Hell and in no way uplifting (IMO).

If I had it to over again, I likely wouldn't see Empire in the theater but eventually catch it later for completeness sake. Really it doesn't sound as depressing as Rogue One which is not what I want from Star Wars.

That's ok, the thread might still be here when you come back to say how wrong those reports were.

Quote from: Nexus;936095I skipped Deep Impact for the similar reasons to why I will be skipping Rogue One. But yeah, that's dark as Hell and in no way uplifting (IMO). .

So on the one hand...you handwave the destruction of Alderaan because of how it is presented, ie. Context, which you are only able to judge because you actually saw the presentation, but apparently know with certainty the presentation and context of other movies you haven't seen.

Whatever.  You've obviously worked yourself into this position and we're closing in on spending more time on your Unseen Theory of the movie than it would take to prove it one way or another by just watching the damn thing.

Quote from: CRKrueger;936104So on the one hand...you handwave the destruction of Alderaan because of how it is presented, ie. Context, which you are only able to judge because you actually saw the presentation, but apparently know with certainty the presentation and context of other movies you haven't seen.

I have this power I can evaluate information about an experience even a piece of media and determine if it would be worth my time and money to consume. It saves me allot time and cash.

Spoiler

If you going to compare it to Alderaan are the main characters faceless nameless, not even extras that we never see but we're informed that they died doing stuff?

I'm not sure what you're calling "handwaving" here It was a dramatic,

Quote from: Nexus;936114I have this power I can evaluate information about an experience even a piece of media and determine if it would be worth my time and money to consume. It saves me allot time and cash.

True. Unfortunately, we have the equivalent of this...

Me: I'm not going to see that movie, I hate Rob Schneider comedies.
Friend: Um, it's not a comedy, and Rob Schneider isn't even in it.
Me: I'll still save the time and cash.
Friend: Mmmmkay...

Quote from: CRKrueger;936126True. Unfortunately, we have the equivalent of this...

Me: I'm not going to see that movie, I hate Rob Schneider comedies.
Friend: Um, it's not a comedy, and Rob Schneider isn't even in it.
Me: I'll still save the time and cash.
Friend: Mmmmkay...

Except that's not this situation. Rob Scheder's being in the movie or not is an objective provable fact. How you, I or anyone feels about the mood, tone and outlook of the movie is an opinion.

What you've said about Rogue One and just everyone else I've talked to about it indicate its not my cup of tea. Its even more telling that most of these aspects of the film are being presented as prominent positives. Now, you don't agree with the comparisons to other movies people have made that's fair enough. But because ou or anyone else does't agree with them doesn't automatically invalidate their opinion plus the justification they've given for the comparisons aren't thinks I want to see in Star Wars film.

It could brag to you all day long about these new rpgs awesome narrative mechanics that are totally like Marve!"l Heroic Roleplay meets Wushu but if someone comes along and says "No, its nothing like those games but it is an awesome narrative story game!" that probably not going to convince you to play it.

That's where I am. I'm not willing to wager time and money on something that is by all observable evidence a losing proposition for me. I'm just going to put it on the same shelf as Fury Road and Deus Ex Machina. Popular movie that turned out not to be for me.

Quote from: JRT;936058Yes, that's the case...they were not kidding when they said this movie "wouldn't have a sequel".  

Spoiler

I mean, this is very different in tone from the 7 "saga" movies.  For all the talk about how "dark" Empire Strikes Back is, usually the heroes do not die (and none of the main characters died in that one).  The first movie only Obi-Wan died, for instance, and while in TFA they killed off Solo, most of the other cast lives.  I also have to wonder how the young kids will react to so much death.

People here keep talking about how dark and adult the original trilogy is (and disdain the prequels as being too "cute"), but I don't buy that.  This was always aimed at perhaps the "golden age of 12", I mean Harlan Ellison called it "adolescent nonsense" and Alec Guiness said it was sort of mumbo jumbo, so unlike others who see the original as a pedestal and the prequels juvenile, I call it escapist fantasy and don't try to place it on a pedestal.  Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan, but I also recognize it's flaws and don't try to put in on artificial inflated importance.

As far as this movie goes, I saw it with my dad.  I called it "good, but not great", and my Dad (who usually doesn't have as high standards as me) was disappointed.  I do also think the movie offers a little too much fan service being an immediate prequel to A New Hope, and it has less of that classic Star Wars "hero's journey" that makes it epic.

Escapist Fantasy is what I prefer from Star Wars. All the talk of "maturing" the series and making it "Meaningful" I've encountered was actually a turn off  for me. Unfortunately for me looks like the owners want to take thing in a different direction. And can't fault them its making money. Just another series that gone almost 180 degrees from what I liked about it.

Nexus, see the movie or not in a theater or not. However, in terms of tone and gravity, I would personally characterize Rogue One as the movie equivalent of a WEG d6 Star Wars convention one shot GM'd by an expert who can weave the characters into a much larger story that they are a pivotal part of. No more or less grim and gritty than some of the better episodic story arcs of the Clone Wars series.

Quote from: Nexus;936136Escapist Fantasy is what I prefer from Star Wars.

Obviously, to the point of Dogmatic Ideology, but Rogue One is rocking the escapism like it's 1977.

Quote from: Nexus;936136All the talk of "maturing" the series and making it "Meaningful" I've encountered was actually a turn off  for me.

...and that's actually all it was, talk, because after extensive reshooting, it's no more mature or meaningful than the OT (which by the way, did have some meaning, no matter how much you ignored it).

Quote from: Nexus;936136Unfortunately for me looks like the owners want to take thing in a different direction.

If that's what they wanted, they failed, this Rogue One is basically part of A New Hope, seamlessly woven into the story without changing anything.

Quote from: Nexus;936136Just another series that gone almost 180 degrees from what I liked about it.

According to your uninformed opinion of the "Phantasm of a Movie That Never Existed" floating in your head.

Quote from: CRKrueger;936152Obviously, to the point of Dogmatic Ideology, but Rogue One is rocking the escapism like it's 1977.

In your opinion.

Dogmatic Ideology? Have contracted Pundititis where any difference of opinion, not matter how trivial must be turned into the ultimate battle between good and evil? Its a preference in entertainment. That's it. Full stop.

Spoiler

For one thing, every dying doesn't fit my idea of Escapist Fantasy. I like the wuxia nonsense and space knights and all that "silly" stuff. Those prequels people bitch about? I enjoyed them. Even the kid flying a star fighter.

Quote...and that's actually all it was, talk, because after extensive reshooting, it's no more mature or meaningful than the OT (which by the way, did have some meaning, no matter how much you ignored it).

Ignored what? I didn't take your opinion as some kind of objective Truth that over rode all other information. Mind you these were people telling me about why they loved it. What they liked was not what I liked. Until this thread no one tried to browbeat me about over having a different opinion about a movie.

QuoteIf that's what they wanted, they failed, this Rogue One is basically part of A New Hope, seamlessly woven into the story without changing anything.

You know good and well I'm talking about tone and mood not story line.

QuoteAccording to your uninformed opinion of the "Phantasm of a Movie That Never Existed" floating in your head.

Okay, this is really getting fucking bizarre.

Dude, take a breath. Its a movie that I don't share your opinion about not a moral debate. You're not going to argue and browbeat me or anyone else into liking it. And I'm not trying to make you not like it. Why is it so important to you that you appear to be getting worked up because I don't like a movie you do? You're coming across as a real fanboy here. Notice you're the only person getting irate because some one doesn't like a movie they like. Its a movie, not a political stance or whatever. You're being needlessly aggressive, even insulting over something utterly trivial.

Oh boy, here we go with the SRSBSNS stuff.  Notice it always comes from the guys who are in there post for post with you?  Why is that I wonder?

If you'd actually seen the movie and didn't like it, I wouldn't give a shit just like I don't give a shit about your opinion of the Prequels, there's no point in arguing preferences.  But, having not seen it, you've nevertheless managed to construct out of whole cloth a false premise whereby...

This is Star Wars meets Saving Private Ryan.
This is a 180 degree departure from the other Star Wars movies
This is the New Owners taking the series in a whole new direction.

All of which are laughably false.  Even the guy who said it was only good claimed it's fault was that it was too much in line with A New Hope and didn't go its own way.

This idea of this movie being some form of extreme outlier, some brand new, dark, edgy movie constructed by Disney to change what Star Wars is...that's just idiocy if not downright lunacy.

The main criticism I'm seeing from critics is that it didn't go Full.Dirty.Dozen.  They are dinging it because it is a Star Wars movie and not a war film with Sw sticker on the side.

All of which will be ridiculously apparent to you, the day you see it.

You and I might differ on preference of narrative mechanics or exactly how dark something is, but you've never pulled Milton Bradley's Operation out of the closet, and claimed that's a roleplaying game, which is essentially what you're doing here.  At some point you have to tell someone to put away the Ketamine and return to reality...or else, like I do with anything, call total bullshit when I see it being peddled.

Quote from: CRKrueger;936194Oh boy, here we go with the SRSBSNS stuff.

Mind unpacking that?

Edit: Are you fucking with me? This is starting to feel like an epic trolling.

Edit 2: On further thought you have -got- to be screwing with me (and masterfully done!) Either that or you have allot of trouble with concept of facts vs opinions among other things. Either way, I think we're done here.

After seeing "Rogue One" twice now I feel that "A New Hope" has more impact if it is watched within an hour after seeing"Rogue One".

The stakes for free people in "Star Wars Chapter IV A New Hope" now seem more desperate and meaningful now that "Rogue One" exists and has been seen.

- Ed C.