From Yahoo News:
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Some Arab media, including Saudi-owned Al-Arabiya and the U.S.-financed Al-Hurrah, reported about an hour before daylight Saturday (about 10 p.m. EST Friday) that Saddam had been executed. There was no confirmation from the Iraqi government.
A U.S. judge on Friday refused to stop Saddam's execution, rejecting a last-minute court challenge.
U.S. District Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly said U.S. courts do not have jurisdiction to interfere in another country's judicial process. The ruling can be appealed, but it was issued within an hour of the time Iraqi officials said they expected the execution to be carried out.
The whole article can be found here (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061230/ap_on_re_mi_ea/saddam)
Discuss
Saddam permabanned!?!?
FUCKEN BULLSHIT D00D I'M GOIN TO TT TO GIVE THE MODS A PIECE OF MY FUCKEN MIND
I know the war that lead to his ouster was done under false pretexts and mismanaged.
I know the trial was politically manipulated, probably slanted, and not exactly Justice at Nuremburg quality.
I know that there's arguments that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld should stand in the dock and that Saddam was only killed so he couldn't testify against them.
But eff it.
*clears throat*
"ooooohhh....I'm dancing on air...."
Assalam al-frickin-laikhum, you goddamn dead turd. I hope it was a short drop and a long twitch.
I wonder which starlet's bajingo will be required to get that from the front page...
On a more serious note, I feel oddly untouched by that result. I'm generally not a big fan of the death penalty, but this one wasn't even all that well done from a pure publicity point of view. Meh.
Yeah. I wanna see some videos.
Otherwise, it's old news.
Yeah, the guys at fox news were praactically jerking off in anticipation over saddam's execution....
Woo hoo! Another glorious victory for der grofaz.....
Quote from: SosthenesI'm generally not a big fan of the death penalty, but this one wasn't even all that well done from a pure publicity point of view. Meh.
You know, you're right. Public impalement has way better production value. Heck, I would have just settled for his head set on a spike for all to see. Sometimes the real old ways are the best.
Note to self: do not accept help from CIA.
Yeah, because it was definitely the help from the CIA that damned him, not the running of political prisoners through shredders as an intimidation tactic (or any of the other atrocities commited on his watch).
Obviously. It's not like we gave a shit about said atrocities when they started.
If anything, the advice is more like "Do not assume, because the CIA is helping you, that they don't find you horrific and hope to see you dead very soon."
But ... I mean ... that advice borders on the obvious, right?
Advice not to trust the CIA?
Yeah, that's fairly obvious.
Quote from: beejazzObviously. It's not like we gave a shit about said atrocities when they started.
As long as you don't include me in that "we." I personally cared about the atrocities, but not being a professional multinational hitman there wasn't much I could do. :)
Meh. By this I only mean that the politics behind this whole business is pretty atrocious. I really doubt Saddam's atrocities are what put him at odds with the U.S.
Quote from: beejazzMeh. By this I only mean that the politics behind this whole business is pretty atrocious. I really doubt Saddam's atrocities are what put him at odds with the U.S.
Depressingly, it's true. Far worse scumbags routinely get a pass (or active support) from my government.
Who cares? If I kill a rabid dog because it won't bark Jingle Bells and not because it bites children, does it really matter? The important part is that the dog is dead.
Quote from: James McMurrayWho cares? If I kill a rabid dog because it won't bark Jingle Bells and not because it bites children, does it really matter? The important part is that the dog is dead.
True, but you wouldn't insist on taking the dog's place in biting children to make up for his absence.
(KIIIILL the analogy!)
Hey, one problem at a time man, one problem at a time. :)
That dog wasn't rabid. He stopped getting fed, and he turned surly.
Maybe some people should lay off training the attack dogs.
Yeah, he was definitely "not getting fed." It's not like he had golden palaces all over the place, stocked with every kind of "food" imaginable.
Hey, don't disturb droog's notion that every dictator is obviously a CIA attack dog... ;)
BTW, what I find pretty interesting about the whole execution is that they gave Saddam a proper burial and a public grave. Not a good idea...
Quote from: SosthenesHey, don't disturb droog's notion that every dictator is obviously a CIA attack dog... ;)
The Soviet ones have fallen on hard times. Are there many 'independent' dictators that happen to control large amounts of natural resources?
Quote from: droogThe Soviet ones have fallen on hard times. Are there many 'independent' dictators that happen to control large amounts of natural resources?
Mate! We can't just stop supporting dictators who have large amounts of natural resources! If we did that, then... why... we'd... um... have to use less natural resources! And spend less money! And murderous dictators would have no support, and perhaps fall! That would reduce environmental damage, and stop the flow of money out of the country, leaving more money for development and social projects! And give a chance for decent people to come to power in those countries!
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS?!
Quote from: JimBobOzMate! We can't just stop supporting dictators who have large amounts of natural resources! If we did that, then... why... we'd... um... have to use less natural resources! And spend less money! And murderous dictators would have no support, and perhaps fall! That would reduce environmental damage, and stop the flow of money out of the country, leaving more money for development and social projects! And give a chance for decent people to come to power in those countries!
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS?!
We probably could, and we most certainly should, but the Chinese will pick up the slack anyway.
Quote from: AosWe probably could, and we most certainly should, but the Chinese will pick up the slack anyway.
"Officer, if I didn't sell drugs to these underage hookers, someone else would do it anyway."
"Well, that's alright then, son. Be on your way."
Even if it had zero effect in the countries with the dictators, it still benefits us. Less pollution, spare cash for stuff here, less debt, etc.
Over on the SJG forums, they had a thread about saddam being executed. It lasted about 8 hours and had fairly few replies before being shot down by Paul "the mad locker" Chapman for "political content".
Steve Jackson Games forums... Games... politics... games... politics...
Yep, that's a square peg in that there round hole, mate.
When they start locking interesting game threads on our game forums, then I might give a shit.
Okay, Dominus Nox, time to reroll to see which of your four basic topics the next post will be about.
Or, you know, you could talk about games. We don't mind. Honest.
Wow, Nox rolled a 1-10. I was sure he'd roll a 16-18 here, and rant about the evils of Islam; or at least an 11-15 and rant about George W. Bush. But no. He didn't use his optional re-roll, stuck to his guns, and chose to pick the most batshit topic imaginable: ranting about Steve Jackson on a thread about the death of Saddam. Ok then...
RPGPundit
So, has anyone seen the video of saddam getting his neck stretched? I hear there was a phonecam version of it, think I'll go looking for it.
Hey, if executing criminals is right, then why doesn't the american government want it shown? Something to hide?
Quote from: Dominus NoxHey, if executing criminals is right, then why doesn't the american government want it shown? Something to hide?
Or, y'know, it could be some crazed prudery that makes people think that publicizing executions is tacky, and that there's no reason to encourage people to deaden their senses and compassion by supporting snuff films, even newsworthy ones.
If you think Executions in the U.S. are private to protect the condemned, you're pretty out of it. I mean shit, if you want to "protect the condemned", here's a thought: don't fucking execute him!
The real reason that executions aren't public in the U.S. is because the U.S. government knows that it would cause a massive upsurge in the number of people who'd go against the death penalty.
Its really easy to be "pro-death penalty" until you've actually seen someone being killed.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPunditThe real reason that executions aren't public in the U.S. is because the U.S. government knows that it would cause a massive upsurge in the number of people who'd go against the death penalty.
Its really easy to be "pro-death penalty" until you've actually seen someone being killed.
That's a very optimistic viewpoint. I'd counter that maybe the concern is that if people were used to seeing killings on YouToob they would become
less concerned about people dying, rather than more. Familiarity breeds contempt, and all that.
Quote from: TonyLBThat's a very optimistic viewpoint. I'd counter that maybe the concern is that if people were used to seeing killings on YouToob they would become less concerned about people dying, rather than more. Familiarity breeds contempt, and all that.
In the civilized parts of the world, where execution was long since abolished, part of what led to that abolition was objection to the cruelty of execution. This was a very vocal objection because people had seen these executions done publically, and thus knew just how terrible it was.
RPGPundit
Quote from: JimBobOz"Officer, if I didn't sell drugs to these underage hookers, someone else would do it anyway."
"Well, that's alright then, son. Be on your way."
You are truly an origninal thinker. This reply shows that. Never has anyone uttered these sentiments before. You should be proud.
My point was not that we might as well, because someone else is going to anyway, it was that even if we stop it won't make a difference. We are doomed. We should stop, I'm all for it, in fact. We are doomed, though, and all the moral victories in the world won't change that.
Quote from: RPGPunditIn the civilized parts of the world, where execution was long since abolished, part of what led to that abolition was objection to the cruelty of execution. This was a very vocal objection because people had seen these executions done publically, and thus knew just how terrible it was.
Wouldn't work out that way nowadays, I'd say.
Quote from: RPGPunditIts really easy to be "pro-death penalty" until you've actually seen someone being killed.
RPGPundit
I've seen executions, and I'm fine with the concept of the death penalty. I'm also fine with pulling the trigger myself when the situation arises. Of course, my opinions on the subject aren't driven by a lot of emotion, either.
P.S. I'm amazed that the condemnation of Saddam is so ambivalent after the roasting Pinochet got.
Quote from: RPGPunditThe real reason that executions aren't public in the U.S. is because the U.S. government knows that it would cause a massive upsurge in the number of people who'd go against the death penalty.
I think you over estimate the effects of this, and have no idea what it's really like to live in this country. To me it sounds like you're using some sort of circular logic to reinforce your point.
I think you could televise executions in this country, and the ratings would be off the charts.
QuoteIts really easy to be "pro-death penalty" until you've actually seen someone being killed.
And that has what to do with it? What happens if I see people die and still don't care? Oh wait I have seen people die in all sorts of horrible fashions, and I still don't care.
Capital Punishment isn't supposed to be pretty. It isn't supposed to be nice, or even a desirable alternative. It is supposed to be a punishment for crimes so heinous that society chooses to send a clear concise message.
Now you can argue all day about how fucked up the current system is, and how unfair it is and I'd agree all day. I am still pro-death penalty. You can't make an omelet with out cracking some eggs.
I don't want the death penalty to be surgical, nice and pretty. It should be viscous brutal and swift. Whether that will ever happen or not remains to be seen.
Quote from: AosWe are doomed, though, and all the moral victories in the world won't change that.
It's funny 'cause it's true!
Quote from: Serious PaulI think you could televise executions in this country, and the ratings would be off the charts.
I have to agree with this one. When the news agencies do air gruesome deaths (like some of the recent beheadings from the Middle East) they preface it with "be warned, this next clip is very graphic." That little phrase is like honey to viewers, and ratings skyrocket.
Perhaps if you tell them someone is innocent and then show the hanging you might get a negative result, but for the most part you're not going to change someone's views on the death penalty by telvising the death of a guilty man, especially not one like Saddam Hussein.
Quote from: Divine HammerI've seen executions, and I'm fine with the concept of the death penalty. I'm also fine with pulling the trigger myself when the situation arises. Of course, my opinions on the subject aren't driven by a lot of emotion, either.
P.S. I'm amazed that the condemnation of Saddam is so ambivalent after the roasting Pinochet got.
I think pinochet got lambasted more because the scumbag got away with it, so people blasted him harder than they did saddam, who didn't get away with it.
I guess if you're an old dictator and mass murderer you can claim "Ohhhh, poor old me, I'm too old and sick to go to jail for killing all those people." and skate on anything, especially in england. Now, poor old Byron De La Beckwith was a feeble old mad when he was sent to prison for one single murder, and he died in prison, but I guess if you're a[political figure who kills a lot of people you get away with it as opposed to being an average schmuch who kills one.
People hate those who get away with it more than those who get caught and puniches in some way, then again it's easier to forgive someone who's beewn puniched in some way. Why do you think so many people in america hate OJ?
Quote from: RPGPunditIf you think Executions in the U.S. are private to protect the condemned, you're pretty out of it. I mean shit, if you want to "protect the condemned", here's a thought: don't fucking execute him!
The real reason that executions aren't public in the U.S. is because the U.S. government knows that it would cause a massive upsurge in the number of people who'd go against the death penalty.
Its really easy to be "pro-death penalty" until you've actually seen someone being killed.
RPGPundit
That's pretty much the point I was making, pundy.
Quote from: Dominus NoxI think pinochet got lambasted more because the scumbag got away with it, so people blasted him harder than they did Saddam, who didn't get away with it.
I think that's over complicated. I think people are fickle, and flighty. Trying to assign some sort of logic to the "masses", or an entire society as a whole is really silly.
QuoteWhy do you think so many people in America hate OJ?
Who?
Quote from: Serious PaulI think that's over complicated. I think people are fickle, and flighty. Trying to assign some sort of logic to the "masses", or an entire society as a whole is really silly.
Who?
I still think that people can "let it go" easier when someone gets punished for what they did, which is why pinochet was hated so much, but then again the britt govet. deserved to be hated ror letting the dick get away with it.
As to OJ, yoiu're kidding, right?
I don't own a television, and pretty much hate anything sold by mainstream media-and make no mistake the media sells the news.
Quote from: RPGPunditIts really easy to be "pro-death penalty" until you've actually seen someone being killed.
RPGPundit
After forcing myself to sit through the Nick Berg video, I disagree. Seeing SOME people killed can certainly make you even more pro-death penalty.
Quote from: WerekoalaAfter forcing myself to sit through the Nick Berg video, I disagree. Seeing SOME people killed can certainly make you even more pro-death penalty.
Excellent point. I wonder how many people have actually seen that one....