Plus you'll find dozens of similar articles if you care to look, by various authors, and various political leanings. I've followed this sort of thing with passing interest over the last decade or so.

I tend to agree with the gist of these articles-that we've become too sensitive, hyper sensitive in some cases, about the smallest and silliest of things. I do however think there's a difference between boys will be boys, and felonious assault. We've worked so hard to remove the discretion from our society, to make everyone equal-when quite obviously we are not.

I don't have a solution offhand, or at the ready. I do try to raise my own kids to make better decisions than I did, and with more information than I had at their age.

Quote from: beejazz;218900It is fox news, though. So... yeah...

Quote from: NotYourMonkey;218991I take nothing FOX says with any seriousness whatsoever.

Actually, its Associated Press. Take that "Its Fox News" crap to RPG.net, or learn to read.

And yes, we've turned our (well, their) children into sissified whiners. No more dodge ball. No more "winners" in organized youth sport (talking about extracurricular, but it won't be long...). Not using red markers to grade papers because of the negative connotation. No more valedictorians.

Lovely little world they're building, eh?

Quote from: jhkim;218972For example, these days seat belts and child seats are absolutely required both by culture and law, whereas when I was growing up we'd just play around in the back of the station wagon.  However, that doesn't show that parents today don't know how to let their kids independently take care of themselves in the car -- that shows that parents back then had a lot of kids fucking die in car crashes!  

Did they, though?  Me and my sister survived.  Hell, we even convinced my dad to let us lie flat with our feet on the top of the backseat and our arms on the top of the frontseat, like we were flying!  

Obviously, I'm all for seat belts, but that is one sensible law amongst an ocean of excessively protective measures (some that are law, some that are cultural and some that are advertising).  Children don't seem to be allowed to just run around any more.  Why play dates? and all the bacterial fear.

Walker,

 You did that too??!

 Weren't station wagons in the 70s really cool if you were a kid?

Sorry - small tangent there.


- Ed C.

Yet more reasons to never date American women.   I can only imagine what nightmares these special snowflakes and coddled whiners become as adults.  

On the seatbelt issue, I remember going on school field trips in the 70s by packing a kids in the back of a pickup truck or a van.  And boy did we have fun!

But kids today have it good.   All those horny teachers and single 30 something moms going after high school guys is just amazing.   Ah, to be 16 again in the age of Cougars and MILFs!!

Everyone does realize that by beating the odds, there were others who didn't, or there wouldn't be odds, right?

Or are people here seriously lobbying to get rid of things like seat belt laws as a means to toughen up today's youth?

Seriously raising the 'political correctness gone wild!' canard is plenty enough of a bullshit argument. Are you really the person you are today because you played dodgeball?  That would be a pretty sad commentary if that is the major point around here.  Unless, of course, all that competition you had in your youth propelled you to be the captains of industry you are today.  I mean, that is what the competition teaches, right?  And everyone that decries even the slightest moderation of it does so because of the fantastic success they achieved because of youthful competitions, right?

Or is this thread being mirrored from someplace that isn't an internet message board about pretending to be elves and princesses?

"... kids these days... in my day we had it tough, and liked it!"

You silly cunts are just getting old.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;219039"... kids these days... in my day we had it tough, and liked it!"

You silly cunts are just getting old.

"My day" was ten years ago, if that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking through the rose colored glasses; "my day" sucked ass. But it had fuck all to do with exclusion or isolation. Were it not for those two, I'd never have learned to draw, or read as much as I did, or I guess I wouldn't have been as self-sufficient... that last I'm not as sure of.

Quote from: RPGPundit;218927I keep thinking that one of the main errors in our culture is the extreme age-segregation that goes on.
Children are not wonderful little creatures full of kindness in their hearts; they're little animals. Quite literally.

But of course they are animals with the capacity to learn what it is to be human.
...
Also, glorifying the wonderfulness of children and the "culture of childhood" makes about as much sense to me as glorifying non-housetrained pets.

I wanted to say precisely this. Children are not humans. Yet. It is learning to function in human society that makes them into one, and without that, they are "innocent" - but only in the "they don't know right from wrong" sense. Trying to protect this innocence at all costs is looking at things in a fundamentally wrong way. In real life, there are consequences, and this has to be learnt before the stakes become serious.

But I don't subscribe to the Internet Tough Guy Manly Man McMan school of thinking. Bullying is a vicious thing, because it thrives on exploiting helplesness against superior numbers. It doesn't build character or put hair on your chest. You can't stand up to bullies because there are more of them than you, and of course, bullies don't care if they get disciplinary action for physical violence, but it matters to non-bullies. I've been there, and no matter how I tried to fight back, I was eventually beaten down. It sucked.

This is a case where adult intervention - swift, stern and painful - is absolutely essential. In a school, adults are The Law. If they aren't prepared to use The Law, or use it blindly in a way that inconveniences the victims instead of the perpetrators, the result is precisely as in the real world: a society ruled and kept in fear by criminals. If authorities aren't prepared to take responsibility in their positions, they don't deserve to hold them.

The thing that bothers me about this, is that once that magic 18 year age is reached then many of these overprotected kids are now considered adults. The Real World is not necessarily going to be as nice and/or compassionate to them as their schools - expect much disillusionment for the upcoming generation at least when they learn that TANSTAAFL.

I've been reading a book online by former teacher John Taylor Gatto, "The Underground History of American Education". This reminds me of the chapter "The Way It Used To Be". Children were exposed to much of life early, since there was no compulsory schooling. Many had to make their way early, and on their own. Violence was a fact of life. Consider this:

QuoteIn his memoirs, The Intimate Papers of Colonel House, we get a glimpse of elite American schooling in the 1870s. House’s early years were school-free. He grew up after the Civil War, near Houston, Texas:

My brother James, six years older than I, was the leader....We all had guns and pistols... there were no childish games excepting those connected with war. [House was nine at the time.] In the evening around the fireside there were told tales of daring deeds that we strove to emulate.... I cannot remember the time when I began to ride and to shoot.... I had many narrow escapes. Twice I came near killing one of my playmates in the reckless use of firearms. They were our toys and death our playmate.

At the age of fourteen House was sent to school in Virginia. The cruelty of the other boys made an indelible impression on his character, as you can sift from this account:

I made up my mind at the second attempt to haze me that I would not permit it. I not only had a pistol but a large knife, and with these I held the larger, rougher boys at bay. There was no limit to the lengths they would go in hazing those who would allow it. One form I recall was that of going through the pretense of hanging. They would tie a boy’s hands behind him and string him up by the neck over a limb until he grew purple in the face. None of it, however, fell to me. What was done to those who permitted it is almost beyond belief.

Quite a difference. Again, the original poster's article dealt with girls, but imagine the response to such things today.

My favorite part of Mr. Gatto's book so far is his recounting if the carreer of Admiral Farragut. Midshipman at ten, first command at twelve:

QuoteFarragut left a description of what he encountered in his first sea fight:

I shall never forget the horrid impression made upon me at the sight of the first man I had ever seen killed. It staggered me at first, but they soon began to fall so fast that it appeared like a dream and produced no effect on my nerves.

The poise a young boy is capable of was tested when a gun captain on the port side ordered him to the wardroom for primers. As he started down the ladder, a gun captain on the starboard side opposite the ladder was "struck full in the face by an eighteen-pound shot," his headless corpse falling on Farragut:

We tumbled down the hatch together. I lay for some moments stunned by the blow, but soon recovered consciousness enough to rush up on deck. The captain, seeing me covered with blood, asked if I were wounded; to which I replied, "I believe not, sir." "Then," said he, "where are the primers?" This brought me to my senses and I ran below again and brought up the primers.

The Essex had success; it took prizes. Officers were dispatched with skeleton crews to sail them back to the United States, and at the age of twelve, Farragut got his first command when he was picked to head a prize crew. I was in fifth grade when I read about that. Had Farragut gone to my school he would have been in seventh. You might remember that as a rough index how far our maturity had been retarded even fifty years ago. Once at sea, the deposed British captain rebelled at being ordered about by a boy and announced he was going below for his pistols (which as a token of respect he had been allowed to keep). Farragut sent word down that if the captain appeared on deck armed he would be summarily shot and dumped overboard. He stayed below.

Quote from: gleichman;218893Plus it matches a lot of what my wife told me about girls and their cliche based culture.

That's hilarious!

NB - the word you're after is "clique". Of course, back in my day we'd make sure we knew how to spell a word before we used it or the teacher would beat us with a shovel, cut off our fingers, gouge out our eyes with rusty nails etc etc. And it didn't do me any harm!

Ned

Quote from: Ned the Lonely Donkey;219087That's hilarious!

NB - the word you're after is "clique". Of course, back in my day we'd make sure we knew how to spell a word before we used it

Blame my spell checker.

And really, a spelling nazi post? That's how you want to spend your time online? Back in my day your ass would be so kicked around the playground...

QuoteChildren are not humans.

Thus begins the road to Walkerism.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;219039"... kids these days... in my day we had it tough, and liked it!"

I was thinking the same thing...

Quote from: beejazz;219046"My day" was ten years ago, if that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking through the rose colored glasses; "my day" sucked ass. But it had fuck all to do with exclusion or isolation. Were it not for those two, I'd never have learned to draw, or read as much as I did, or I guess I wouldn't have been as self-sufficient... that last I'm not as sure of.

You're another guy, right?  I bring this up because most of the articles I've read suggest bullying is (usually, but not always) a bit different for boys and girls.  Girls (usually, and seemingly changing now) do less physical bullying and more psychological bullying.  

For a bunch of guys to say "in my day, I wasn't bothered by psychological bullying"... it's kind of missing the point.