Quote from: Old GeezerWhich is what I object to.  No work, no money.  Period.  If you want to help a small business, make them a loan, do not parasitically suck away the worth created by the people actually working.

The problem is that the people wouldn't actually be working or creating worth without the investment and loans to small and new companies are quite risky and unreliable.  The better solution, which is already happening to some degree, is to minimize the cost required to start a business to encourage owner-operators.  Things like print-on-demand, drop-shipping, e-commerce sites, Ebay, and so on all greatly reduce the overhead of starting and operating a business, making the barrier to entry much lower than it once was.

Quote from: signoftheserpentor better yet, examine the behaviour and motiations of said enemies to understand just why we 'the left' have a problem with them as such.

I've done that and, frankly, that the left sees their opposition as a sort of cartoon evil that purposely wants to destroy the world always seemed a little baffling to me, yet Sowell offers a very good explanation for why that is.  Did it ever occur to you that maybe it's "the left" that has an understanding problem?  Probably not.

Quote from: walkerpAs a left wing person, I feel exactly the same way.  Left Pyramid because of that.

Yes, that absolutely happens in social situations (e.g., forums) where right-wing people feel dominant and comfortable, too.  And that also leads to the echo chamber problem.  When everyone around you has a certain political leaning, the reasonable center shifts toward that leaning and gets more and more radical until the next thing you know, some really nutty ideas start to be taken seriously as if they are reasonable because nobody on the other side is there to call them nutty.

Quote from: darI know, but those tend to be political from the ground up, not boards ostensibly meant for other things. Anyway, I've seen it happen over and over again, as a thing on the net becomes popular, it gets bent liberal. I think digg is the extreme example.

Could that simply be because conservatives aren't interested in pop culture fads?  That sounds pretty obvious to me.

Quote from: HaffrungSure, you have a good point (sots, I'm looking at you). Still, I think that about the same number of liberals as conservatives (or whatever) think they are on a mission and infuse politics into every thing, even when it's utterly pointless. Seeing that the liberals tend to mob and shout down other views, well, it leads to my opinion that there are more liberals online.

(Using "liberal" and "conservative" in the American sense here...)

Part of the issue, and the reason why I mentioned Sowell's books, is that conservatives largely simply think liberals are wrong, ignorant, or silly while liberals tend to think conservatives are malicious and evil, thus they take things far more personally and seriously.  Liberals are likely to shut down arguments that they don't like with charges of racism, sexism, homophobia, fascism, and a host of other ad hominem attacks.  It's really difficult to have a meaningful conversation with someone who is frothing at the mouth over how evil you are.

Quote from: HaffrungWasn't there a poll here? Didn't it come out that way on this very board?

If I had to guess, I'd say that most conservative role-players aren't interested in navel-gazing about their hobby online.

Quote from: WerekoalaActually, I find that the majority of RPG.netters seem to be wildly liberal and reactionary...

Reactionary doesn't mean what you think it does, get a dictionary.

Double post deleted

Quote from: John MorrowThe problem is that the people wouldn't actually be working or creating worth without the investment and loans

Loans are a different matter from the organized theft that is stocks and dividends.

I suspect, though, that we have different baseline assumptions.  Different assumptions virtually guarantee different conclusions.

Having been on both sides over the years, let me tell you that both sides take things far too personally, mischaracterise their opponents, and fail to understand where the other side is coming from. In most places, one view or another comes to predominate, and the participants reinforce one another's view that they are misunderstood martyrs for truth, while other side is a pack of callow twits who, with fleeting exceptions, fail to uphold basic standards of reasoning. Having seen it happen time and time again, I personally find it pretty hilarious.

Quote from: John MorrowI've done that and, frankly, that the left sees their opposition as a sort of cartoon evil that purposely wants to destroy the world always seemed a little baffling to me, yet Sowell offers a very good explanation for why that is.  Did it ever occur to you that maybe it's "the left" that has an understanding problem?  Probably not.

I don't know any 'lefty' that views the right in such a way.

But then we have a government that lost 25 million people's personal details in the post; if that's not cartoon evil then I don't know what else you could call it.

Quote from: shindorimReactionary doesn't mean what you think it does, get a dictionary.

Dictionary or not, it is a good summary.

Quote from: Old GeezerLoans are a different matter from the organized theft that is stocks and dividends.

*blinkety*

    Staying out of this conversation so far, but I just have to ask.  How does the voluntary trading of shares of ownership in a commercial enterprise and the (small) payment of profits thereof=organized theft?  That got a "huh" from me.

    The idea of Pundit as a Randroid got a huge laugh.  The man's a fan of leftist, populist singers who would have given an Objectivist an aneurysm.   Pundit's just a man with an extremely low tolerance for  BS in any orthodoxy.

      Aside from his own.

...So, is there a good idea in this somewhere for a Sci-Fi campaign maybe??

 Robots or androids that have been programmed to think like Ayn Rand maybe?


- Ed C.

Oh ..THIS thread ? , you meant :
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=365306


Yeah that whole thread is a trainwreck heading for locking ,...if the wrong viewpoint gets posted on there.


- Ed C.

Wait...you mean the Cylons *don't* follow Rand as their One True Prophet?

Quote from: John MorrowYou also need to remember that a lot of right-wing people learn to keep their heads down and not say anything because left-wing people can get pretty nutty and unhinged when they hear ideas that they don't like and jump straight to the ad hominem attacks and smears.

Smears? You mean like automatically accusing other people of acting pretty nutty and unhinged and of jumping straight into ad hominem attacks? Those sort of smears?