Quote from: RPGPunditAh, but then Settembrini's point comes into play. Should I not be allowed to contradict people who come onto other forums on the board and start promoting the Swine agenda?
I mean, the alternative would be extremely heavy-handed moderation (by the standards of this site) where any thread that brought up any position that I considered Swinish would immediately be moved over to the RPGPundit's Forum so I could rebuke it there.  

No. No-one has to be silenced. Just put things in their proper place.

Eventually any Swinish stuff is going to drift into one of two directions - theory talk, or an internet stoush. Theory goes in the Game Design subforum, and a stoush goes into Off Topic. The mods won't have to move a lot of threads, just a few at the start until people get the message. Once threads are moved out of Roleplaying they'll lose a lot of their audience, and fizzle away into being forgotten.

The Swine agenda, as RPGPundit describes it, absolutely requires the use of rpg theory of one kind or another. So if it's a passing Swinish comment, you can ignore it or smash it down in a regular sort of way, but if the thread becomes entirely about that rpg theory stuff, then it's time for the thread to be moved to Game Design. We discuss theory and how to apply it in Game Design. We discuss rpgs, the industry, and rpg sessions in the Roleplaying subforum.

If, on the other hand, you're not debating theory, but just turning the thread into "you guys are such cunts" vs "RPGPundit is a prick" then in fact the thread no longer has anything to do with rpgs, nor anything to do with rpg theory. It's just an internet stoush, and as such belongs in Off Topic - though if you really want to have that in RPGPundit's Own, well that's not our problem.

So for example this thread, "Proof of Story-Game Swinedom" never belonged in the Roleplaying forum at all; it belonged in Off Topic, since it was just a shit-stirring thread. So RPGPundit started the thread in the wrong subforum.

The difficulty is in RPGPundit's approach to the Swine. Rather than undermining their ideas, he tends to call them cunts. This disrupts and derails a thread. Whatever was the original topic is forgotten. They may or may not exist, and they may or may not be cunts; that's irrelevant here. What is relevant is that a shit-stirring-looking-for-a-fight thread does not belong in the Roleplaying subforum.

Of course there are always going to be shit-stirring or looking-for-a-fight posts in any thread, and maybe even ten or twenty posts in a row where it happens. That's fair enough. But if the entire fucking thing was aiming at that from the start, you can only go down from there.

Now, if potential members of therpgsite come along and see shit-stirring and fights in RPGPundit's Own and Off Topic, well they expect that and won't complain. If they see rpg theory in Game Design, again they expect that. But if they find shit-stirring, fights and rpg theory in Roleplaying, then you are going to attract no-one except people who like stirring shit, fighting and talking rpg theory. You will attract what you call Swine - as well as guys like Dominus Nox.

I don't think that's a good way for therpgsite to go if we're aiming to have interesting, useful and funny conversations.

No-one has to be silenced. Just put things in their proper place.

QuoteShould I not be allowed to contradict people who come onto other forums on the board and start promoting the Swine agenda?

That's okay by me. What I don't like are the attacks that you launch (like this thread, actually). This thread had nothing to do with defense of a position taken on this forum by a Forge advocate, rather, it attacked something mentioned on another forum entirely. There's no way that you can pass this (and threads like it) off as genuine, topical, rebuttal of "people who come onto other forums on the board and start promoting the Swine agenda". Because it's not. It's attacking other people at other forums simply for the sake of doing so.

Quote from: Kyle AaronNo. No-one has to be silenced. Just put things in their proper place.

If I may also suggest?  Most forum software has a "Split" command for moderators, that lets you split one thread into two at any point (or even, for some software, divvy up which individual posts go to the new one and which ones stay in the old).  I think it would be a really good idea for the mods to get familiar with this function if this "Put things in their proper place" idea becomes policy.

If there have been six pages of good, insightful RPG discussion and then someone comes along and starts a pointless argument on page 7 I'd rather not see the whole thread trundled off to Off-Topic.  It would be much nicer to just see page 7 surgically cut loose of the preceding material and tossed aside.  A bit more work for the mods, but a much better experience for posters.

I'm not even a very big fan of moving threads (at least not until I'm utterly convinced they don't belong where the OP put them). I couldn't really see myself splitting up threads.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditI'm not even a very big fan of moving threads (at least not until I'm utterly convinced they don't belong where the OP put them). I couldn't really see myself splitting up threads.

RPGPundit

This may be an adjustment you would want to make for the better of the site.  It's a nice way to allow the free speach to flow whilst minimizing disruption...

Or not...

Could I make two suggestions please?

One, let's stop gazing at our navels, only fluff is to be found there.

Two, if anyone on this thread isn't posting at least as much in a gaming forum here, they should stop posting in this thread and post some stuff in the gaming fora.

Metabitching is cool and all, but if you're making more metaposts than gaming posts then that's not great and I'd suggest making more gaming posts.

Thirdly, because I can't count, I loved Tony's suggestion of sending people into different threads, although it would be better if they were random threads.  "Down with the swine, they are destroying gaming!"  "Um dude, not sure how you got here but this thread is about classic Traveller houserules, what are the Swine?  Is that something out of TNE?"

Quote from: Balbinus[...] if anyone on this thread isn't posting at least as much in a gaming forum here, they should stop posting in this thread and post some stuff in the gaming fora.

It had been dead for a week before you dug it up.

As for posting in the gaming forums, I already started that crusade. See sig.

Quote from: BalbinusCould I make two suggestions please?

You're a couple of weeks late, methinks

Quote from: Kyle AaronIt had been dead for a week before you dug it up.

As for posting in the gaming forums, I already started that crusade. See sig.

Allow me to say, bugger.

Bugger, bugger, bugger.

Um, so, well, bugger.  How terribly embarassing.

I don't care what people play. As long as they enjoy it, who cares?

Quote from: ZalmoxisI don't care what people play. As long as they enjoy it, who cares?

Exactly.

There are no "Swine", there is no "War".   Are there assholes in this hobby?

Sure, there are assholes in every hobby.

No one is trying to subvert the hobby.  It is simply people playing the games they enjoy.  Whether it is D&D 3.5 or DITV they are playing role playing games and are in the same hobby as everyone else.