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Author Topic: Proof of Story-Game Swinedom  (Read 12241 times)

Sigmund

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« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2007, 05:33:38 PM »
Quote from: jrients
Go ahead and exagerrate if you want, man.  Don't let me stop you.  Just be prepared for some people not to get your message.  I must say I find it funny that we're talking about an issue related to group communication and you think the best way to discuss it is through hyperbole.


Well, I guess I just figured the exaggeration was pretty obvious, especially since it's used in all sorts of discourse about a great variety of topics fairly frequently without being commented on except by people who have run out of more useful things to say.

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I thought you'd like that bit.  You're a big fan of exaggerating the other party's position, right?


Indeed I am.

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It's not a problem, so long as you're reading your audience right.  As I already said, you're taking an extra risk that you will alienate players but a good campaign might be enough to excuse this behavior.  If you're wrong about one of your players, that person will have signed on for the campaign you promised but ended up in a different campaign.  That's trickery, however strongly you feel you understand your group's dynamic.


I don't happen to see it as "extra risk", or "behavior" that needs "excused". It's just one tool (of many) to use in order to have fun with a game. Apparently I'm in one of those rare groups that trusts one another enough to both "sign on" to games of unknown genres, and to speak up if they're not having fun. I thought there was more of us.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I don't feel like our group has this dynamic of what seems almost to be some sort of business deal where we all must agree to some sort of universal terms beforehand and that not strictly adhering to these terms religiously is tantamount to breach of contract or treachery or some such. I've never even encountered a group with this kind of feel, and probably wouldn't stay long if I had the misfortune to. We're just some people getting together to play a game and hang out. Whatever happens happens, and if any of us get bored or annoyed, we say so and they rest try to alleviate it... because we're friends. It's really not such a complicated or involved concept.
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Sigmund

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Proof of Story-Game Swinedom
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2007, 05:38:23 PM »
Quote from: Christmas Ape
Some might also call it a legitimate mistake. You know, a "Shit, Ted, I didn't figure the real-world connection was that important to you in that espionage campaign. Introducing some modern horror elements seemed like it'd lend a fun twist to the campaign, but if it's really throwing you I'll switch it off. Anything else you wanted to mention about the campaign?" kind of thing.

I don't expect perfect telepathy in my group. We've been gaming together for a decade and we still misfire sometimes. Then we talk, and we fix it. Nobody feels "tricked", no matter how bad you want to win an argument on the internet. ;) :p

I kid. You're cool by me, robo-warlock. But I get Sigmund's thing.


CA, for the moment anyway, you are way, way, ass-kickin' (I can't stop usin it) better at presenting my argument than I am. Also, 99.9% of the time I fully agree with ( and often get a great kick outa) the things jrients posts, just not this time.
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David R

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« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2007, 08:08:54 PM »
Sigmund and CA have the right of it. Jrients has the left...I think. On another thread I argued that players have the right to know what they are getting into...obviously surprise (and individual group) trumps whatever disempowerment "feelings" they may have. One of the advantages of gaming with adults is communication, so I'm always assured that I'll be told when I'm heading into "dodgy" territory.

I feel sorry from the Pundit...his life must be pretty dull if he has to spy on other sites for "enemy" activity for a made up war.

Regards,
David R

Calithena

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« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2007, 08:21:49 PM »
Hey Jeff -

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But to try to bend D&D towards storygaming requires open and clear communication with the players and the assent of all present. I think anything less will lead to dogs and cats sleeping together, mass hysteria.


I think the local aggression is getting to you a little bit. It goes like this:

You went into the dungeon on behalf of the local village, whose kids are tired of getting eaten by trolls. You're killing shit and getting treasure.

Then you kill this one big troll; there's a hot chick tied up with the treasure. You untie her; she says, well, I'm this princess, and if we go now, we can stop Robard the Unfortunate from marrying my younger sister and claiming the kingdom. Maybe you can be the king instead, you beefy barbarian stud.

And you say, hmm. I gave my word to these villagers that I'd kill all the trolls and save their kids, and I know there's a +4 battleaxe in here somewhere I could really use, but on the other hand, this lady's pretty hot, and being a king sounds good. Hmm...

Blammo, fucker, you're playing D&D and you're playing a storygame. At the same time!

None of this is worth the time that anyone is putting into it.
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Calithena

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« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2007, 08:25:21 PM »
I should add though - if your players think this sort of thing is a hassle you shouldn't hit them with it over and over. Most people enjoy it as an occasional change of pace, some people want it almost all the time, some never. My point is just there are some 'thematic' choices that are easily expressed in and handled by very conventional D&D play. Shit, even the thing where you have to choose between the Siren and the two bags in S1: Tomb of Horrors can be taken that way if you want to.

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James J Skach

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« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2007, 10:54:10 PM »
Wow, by Cali's description I was playing story games with AD&D...how the fuck did that happen?  How do I get a hold of management?  How do I get my money back?

I'm afraid I disagree on what you use as the determining factor that it's a story game.
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Abyssal Maw

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« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2007, 10:58:18 PM »
Quote from: James J Skach
Wow, by Cali's description I was playing story games with AD&D...how the fuck did that happen?  How do I get a hold of management?  How do I get my money back?

I'm afraid I disagree on what you use as the determining factor that it's a story game.


By that description I've been playing story games since I've been playing. But no..

I just don't accept that, because it always comes down to some kind of "but what was the MORAL?" kinda thing or whatever. I dunno.
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Koltar

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« Reply #52 on: June 24, 2007, 12:33:16 AM »
Quote from: Ian Absentia
D'oh!  You cheeky, antagonistic bastard!

By the way, has anyone made a "Dogs in the Swineyard" quip yet?  Because someone totally should.  I can't because it lacks the ring of sincerity when I post it.

!i!



 What???

 You mised that other thread where I referred to it as "PUppies in the Swineyard"?

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Koltar

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« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2007, 12:35:26 AM »
Quote from: Pierce Inverarity
As for me, I'm sick of threads like this one, so let me summarize the next ten pages before they're being written:

1. Tony shows up and muddies the waters

2. Settembrini freaks out

3. Koltar suggests we all switch to GURPS

It's like clockwork.



 Wish I had seen this earlier - I needed that laugh.

 Thank you .

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Koltar

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« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2007, 12:41:51 AM »
Quote from: Sigmund
What the fuck's an "empowered player" anyway? How does a player become "dis-empowered"? What more power does a player need than the power to say "Yeah, that game sounds fun, I'm in" or "Naw, sounds like your game would just make me wanna vomit on your shoes." Also, what the fuck use is a relationship chart in gaming?


 Empowered Player?

 Just means they read too many Dr. Phil books and are feeling overly self-confident  and buying new hair products.


 Relationship Chart ?

 Could be how the significant others of the players influence the game directly or indeirectly - don't know ...you got me on that one.

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The return of 'You can't take the Sky From me!'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUn-eN8mkDw&feature=rec-fresh+div

This is what a really cool FANTASY RPG should be like :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-WnjVUBDbs

Still here, still alive, at least Seven years now...

Kyle Aaron

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« Reply #55 on: June 24, 2007, 01:15:54 AM »
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!
I'm still trying to figure out WTF = "Social Contract".  "I promise not to fart in front of you if you promise not to hit on my Mom"?

That depends. Is your mum hot? If she's hot enough, it could be worth putting up with your farts to be able to have my wicked way with her and a jar of Nutella.

I got offered a written Social Contract by a GM once. It was about four pages of size 8 font, as best I remember. It included such gems as "the players have the right to know the rules of the game." Maybe he'd just been reading Gygax's introduction to the DMG where Gygax said that if players looked in the DMG their characters should lose a magic item. Can't think why else he'd write such a thing.

Um, sorry. I'll let you guys get back to the War. :what:
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Ian Absentia

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« Reply #56 on: June 24, 2007, 01:50:29 AM »
Quote from: Koltar
What???

 You mised that other thread where I referred to it as "PUppies in the Swineyard"?
Clearly I need a clipping service for threads around here.
Quote
Relationship Chart ?

 Could be how the significant others of the players influence the game directly or indeirectly - don't know ...you got me on that one.
RTFM, man! RTFM!

!i!

mearls

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« Reply #57 on: June 24, 2007, 02:04:46 AM »
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!
I'm still trying to figure out WTF = "Social Contract".  "I promise not to fart in front of you if you promise not to hit on my Mom"?


Have you ever been bowling? You know how if you go up for your turn and the guy in the lane next to you to is already set up, so you wait for him to go before you go? You know, so you won't distract him?

That's social contract. Apply it to RPGs, and you get stuff like, "This game is all about combat, so attacking NPCs is cool," or "In this game, it's every man for himself, so we can expect PCs to betray each other."

Maybe it's the sunburn talking, but after reading some of the posts on the SG thread, was it WW fanbois or hyperventilating indie guys who have brain damage?

I can't remember.

(I mean, seriously. At some point, if you worry and angst so much about your "hobby," maybe you need to find a new one.)
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« Reply #58 on: June 24, 2007, 02:26:08 AM »
Quote from: David R


I feel sorry from the Pundit...his life must be pretty dull if he has to spy on other sites for "enemy" activity for a made up war.

Regards,
David R


Actually, I practically never read Storygames; I have informants who send me this stuff.

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jdrakeh

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« Reply #59 on: June 24, 2007, 02:51:03 AM »
Quote from: Pierce Inverarity
As for me, I'm sick of threads like this one, so let me summarize the next ten pages before they're being written:

1. Tony shows up and muddies the waters

2. Settembrini freaks out

3. Koltar suggests we all switch to GURPS

It's like clockwork.


I have to concur. Every time I log onto theRPGsite it seems to be increasingly clogged with the kind of bullshit that got Pundit banned from other forums (i.e., increasingly paranoid vitriol-laden screeds). Why Pundit is making it a point to post this BS in the other forums instead of tucking it away in his own as he originally did, I don't know.

What I do know is that as this forum becomes increasingly defined by its hostility toward others, I find it a much less satisfying place to visit (or recommend to others). I quit participating at the Forge for much the same reason, actually. There, you get plenty of 'holier than thou' -- here, you get a lot of that too, though Pundit serves it up with a heap of 'totally clueless'.