Piracy is,

• Lame to do
• Lame to worry about.

Piracy has little or no effect on sales, because people pirate for four reasons,

• They are poor; stop piracy, and poor people will still have no money to buy the things legitimately
• They are stingy; stop piracy, and stingy people will still be stingy, and not buy the things legitimately
• They are collectors. They don't really want to use the thing, just to have it. Stop piracy, and these people will simply find something else to collect.
  
• They are curious about the product, but too lazy or stingy to buy it to try it out. Stop piracy, and like the stingy and collectors above, these people simply won't buy the product.

So pirates are poor, stingy, collectors or simply curious. They're lame-arsed. Most pirates of rpg material fall into the stingy and collector categories. While downloading d20 101 Magical Doorknobs, they're also downloading Anal Nuns #8. Which are they going to look at first? They'll look at the pr0n, have a wank, then forget they ever downloaded d20 101 Magical Doorknobs.

When people get rpgs for free, whether legitimately or not, they don't read or use them.

• Clash Bowley of Flying Mice Games tells us of sending out 25 copies of a game to people who said they'd review. Only one reviewed it; the rest never even thanked him.
  
• Or consider the free rpg Fate - much discussed, rarely played. Any time you discuss it online, someone will say, "oh yeah, I have a copy of that, I should look at it."
• I had an article on the Milleniums End website, it had over 2,000 downloads and not one email or comment. I took it down, tidied it up, expanded it, and put it on RPGNow.com for five bucks. It had over 100 downloads, a few comments, and over a dozen emails, as well as several passing mentions in forums.
  
• I had an acquaintance who had a copy in pdf of every D&D3.5 book published. He claimed he pirated only because he couldn't afford the books. He told me this after putting $50 on his mobile, spending $30 on lunch, $30 in the bar, and $20 on an arcade machine. He also didn't GM or pay D&D3.5, and had no plans to do so. Nor had he read most of the books he'd downloaded.

People value what they pay for, and don't value, and forget about, stuff they didn't pay for.

Since piracy is harmless, worrying about it is lame. Most certainly, comparing it to child molestation is lame.

Violating another's copyright is wrong not because of the financial harm - even if there were any - but because "copyright" is quite literally the right to make copies. If you produce something, you should be able to determine what people will do with it. If you take a picture of your family, you don't want it copied and pasted up on every telephone pole in the neighbourhood. If you write a story, you can publish it, or not, or publish it alone, or in a collection - you made it, you get to control it. Violating copyright is like violating privacy; even without any actual tangible material harm, it's wrong.

Undoubtedly copying and distributing works without permission is both illegal and immoral. But it's essentially harmless, and while pirates are lame-arsed dweebs, worrying about them is even more lame.

It is, also, unpreventable, and it is futile and a waste of energy to spend time worrying about things we cannot control. Rather than fiercely failing to protect the stuff we've produced, we're better off trying to produce new good stuff. If we want to make money from our creative endeavours, an hour sent creating something new will make us more cash than an hour spent trying to prevent piracy.

Quote from: JimBobOzWhen people get rpgs for free, whether legitimately or not, they don't read or use them.

I read stuff people give me.  Slowly, but I do.

I agree that I do use very little of it.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenI read stuff people give me.  Slowly, but I do.

And your promised review of one particular thing you got was only, on prompting, a single sentence. A witty and amusing one, but a single sentence nonetheless.

Which is why guys like Dan Davenport get shitloads of review copies, and other would-be reviewers get none.

Had you paid even eight bucks for that, I strongly suspect it'd have got more reaction.

But anyway, it demonstrates my point - people don't value what they pay nothing for. Which is why I'm thinking of charging for GMing, but that's another story.

Quote from: JimBobOzAnd your promised review of one particular thing you got was only, on prompting, a single sentence. A witty and amusing one, but a single sentence nonetheless.

Yeah.  That's the one and only review I ever promised - And I failed to deliver.  I still feel kinda crappy about that.

Quote from: JimBobOzHad you paid even eight bucks for that, I strongly suspect it'd have got more reaction.

I'm not denying it.

There's also the fact that people like the late Jim Baen thought that making novels available for free as PDFs actually helped him sell dead-tree versions.  In fact, he's considered to be the first profitable eBook salesman and has never used any DRM either.  Cory Doctorow and Charles Stross have also toyed with this publishing model without their sales completely going south.

I think if you're using a game you downloaded and don't send some money the publisher's way then you're a bit of a twat but I think that's as far as I'd go in condemning piracy.

Purely out of interest JimBob, what article did you sell for $5 a time?

Quote from: SpikeTrust between the creator and the populace at large?

Don't buy it.  Certainly a bit between artists and fans, but only tangentally to our actual conversation.

There's an essay that Will Eisner wrote, I think it's in "Comics and Sequential Art" about the trust that an artist has to have with the society in which he or she lives and vice versa, but I don't think that's what's been talked about here.

Other than that, I agree with JimBobOz

I still don't know what Levi's point was... at the moment it's looking like "stop pirating games or all my free stuff will dry up" but surely that can't be what he was trying to say.

I think Levi feels too strongly on this issue to be able to post as clearly as he normally does, but basically I think he sees piracy as a violation of a social contract between members of the gaming community.

I may be misunderstanding though.

For me, it's fairly simple, if you use something you pirated and don't give the author some money you're a bit of a twat.

Of course, if the author has long since stopped getting any money from actual purchases it all gets a bit abstract.

Quote from: BalbinusI think Levi feels too strongly on this issue to be able to post as clearly as he normally does, but basically I think he sees piracy as a violation of a social contract between members of the gaming community.

As summaries go, that's pretty good.

What social contract though?  the only relationship he's pointed to has been the one between himself and the games industry, and that makes it look like he's engaged in special pleading.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalWhat social contract though?  the only relationship he's pointed to has been the one between himself and the games industry, and that makes it look like he's engaged in special pleading.

Encouraged by my interpretative success so far, I'll have a further go.

I think he sees us all as belonging to a community, a community of gamers.  That community is formed up of people who play, people who design, people who design and play, people who design and read, people who just read, a vast church of various interests but overall a community.

I think he also sees us as members of that community as having responsibilities toward each other, if nothing more than the responsibility not to be fucktards.

And, I think he sees piracy as a form of fucktardery, and as such a violation of the compact binding our community.

Now, to be clear, I don't particularly agree.  I don't think this community really exists and I feel no particular loyalty to it if it does, but I think that's where he's coming from.

I don't think it's a special pleading thing, though I think he may be unaware of his position not being a commonplace one but being rather rarified by virtue of his particular online presence.  I think it's rather he sees it as shitting on the community one is part of, and as such innately fuckwadtastic.

The FSF on "Piracy"

I don't particularly agree with the last sentence, but generally they're right. Copying data should not be equaled with murdering and kidnapping.

I know that hyperbole is the common form of expression on this forum, but not everyone doing something wrong is a "pirate" or "fascist".

That's what I thought he was saying but it's so completely alien to my perception of the world of roleplaying that I find it hard to believe that he was really saying this.

I've actually started to doubt myself... does everyone else get stuff for free that they would otherwise have to pay for?  am I the only person who actually paid for the games he owns?

It reminds me of that sketch Lucas and Walliams did about Elton John where he thinks that milk costs £4-500 a pint.

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalThat's what I thought he was saying but it's so completely alien to my perception of the world of roleplaying that I find it hard to believe that he was really saying this.

I've actually started to doubt myself... does everyone else get stuff for free that they would otherwise have to pay for?  am I the only person who actually paid for the games he owns?

Online several of the more prominent posters get freebie stuff, because they are opinion formers and as such it is worthwhile for companies to give them free goodies in the hope they will post about it.

Steve D, Levi, Dan Davenport, folk listen to what they say so giving them a freebie may generate additional overall sales.

I don't think getting stuff free is central to Levi's point though, I think he would say the same if he paid for every game he has.  The social contract is by virtue of participating in the hobby, well, that's my guess.  I'm summarising views I don't particularly agree with in the absence of the guy I am summarising them for and that's a slightly treacherous road, for all I know I'm utterly misrepresenting him.

Anyway, to me piracy is an issue because generally we're talking small companies and you're taking money directly from the guy making the game you're having fun with.  Where that's not an issue (and quite often it isn't) I care a hell of a lot less.

Playing a bootleg copy of My Life with Master means you've ripped off Paul Czege, who is one guy who will notice the sales.  Playing a bootleg copy of second edition Boot Hill, well really who gives a fuck?

Quote from: LeviYeah. That's the one and only review I ever promised - And I failed to deliver. I still feel kinda crappy about that.

Don't feel crappy. Write it, or forget it. To paraphrase Yoda, "do, or no do - there is no whine."

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalPurely out of interest JimBob, what article did you sell for $5 a time?

"Conflict, and a Person's Place In It," which you can find in the Better Mousetrap Games link in my sig.

Quote from: BalbinusOf course, if the author has long since stopped getting any money from actual purchases it all gets a bit abstract.

Not really. It's still the authour's. I don't get any money from my underwear drawer, doesn't mean I want anyone just rummaging through it. It's mine.

Though, you know, 75 years after my death is probably longer than I care about my underwear staying private

Quote from: BalbinusPlaying a bootleg copy of My Life with Master means you've ripped off Paul Czege, who is one guy who will notice the sales. Playing a bootleg copy of second edition Boot Hill, well really who gives a fuck?

I don't give a fuck about either of them. I won't download the things myself, but if a member of my game group shows up with their copy all eager to GM, I'm not about to throw the guy out of my home. I view piracy the same way I view smoking wacky tabbacky - it's stupid, and lame, and I won't do it, but I don't really give a fuck if someone else does it. At least pirated stuff doesn't smell bad.