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Author Topic: Picard  (Read 29464 times)

Ratman_tf

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Picard
« Reply #210 on: May 20, 2020, 09:44:03 PM »
Quote from: Koltar;1130763
Some of us have to wait until it is on DVD and Blu-ray - so all of you elitist snobs enjoy the luxury of your streaming and ruining and spoiling things for other people by arguing about them,.

- Ed C.

Nobody's forcing you to click on this thread or the links.

...if they are, blink twice.
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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jeff37923

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Picard
« Reply #211 on: May 21, 2020, 12:57:02 AM »
Quote from: Koltar;1130763
Some of us have to wait until it is on DVD and Blu-ray - so all of you elitist snobs enjoy the luxury of your streaming and ruining and spoiling things for other people by arguing about them,.

- Ed C.

Are you whining about a lack "spoiler alert" warnings or because people are picking on your religion?
"Meh."

Omega

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Picard
« Reply #212 on: May 21, 2020, 01:24:47 AM »
Quote from: Koltar;1130763
Some of us have to wait until it is on DVD and Blu-ray - so all of you elitist snobs enjoy the luxury of your streaming and ruining and spoiling things for other people by arguing about them,.

- Ed C.

Spoiler: At the end of the series Picard is eaten alive by the women as they are all really ninja cyborg lesbian space cannibals.

Armchair Gamer

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Picard
« Reply #213 on: May 21, 2020, 10:55:47 AM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1130730
Official startrek.com website posts opinion article about how Picard was meant to stick it to the old, white guy.



   :blinks:

  Wow. The pride, envy and hate really have gotten all-consuming if they're turning on TNG icons.

  As I say, with the exception of Diane Duane's last Rihannsu book and maybe a couple of other odds and ends, I'm happy to assume Star Trek died with the end of the 20th century. :)

Lurkndog

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Picard
« Reply #214 on: May 24, 2020, 11:37:55 AM »
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1130820
 As I say, with the exception of Diane Duane's last Rihannsu book and maybe a couple of other odds and ends, I'm happy to assume Star Trek died with the end of the 20th century. :)

I think part of Star Trek's problem is that the basic concept has gotten diluted.

They started out with basically a hybrid of Voyage of the Space Beagle and Forbidden Planet, merging the scientific expedition in space with a military space adventure. The two go together like peanut butter and jelly, and gave Trek a distinct feel from other sci fi. It is slightly more highbrow, and more concept-based than action-based, with a dash of sex appeal. Kirk and company are kickass heroes, but they almost always turn the tide by thinking about the situation for a second and coming up with an idea.

Modern Treks have tended to be more sexy than smart, more flashy than contemplative. The science and technology are usually nonsense, and often aren't even internally consistent. They make a big deal about Lt. Data being an advanced android, but he demonstrably isn't. Mudd's Women were far more convincing simulacrums, and the technology in the holodeck can whip up a better AI on the fly. And they usually don't get the process of either science or engineering right, because they skip over the process and jump straight to the solution. If Mister Know-It-All can solve a problem with a second's thought, than it was clearly a problem that had already been solved. And when a problem is solved, it is solved completely, to get all the pieces back in the box for the next episode. It is all so very shallow.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 11:39:57 AM by Lurkndog »

Ratman_tf

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Picard
« Reply #215 on: May 24, 2020, 01:13:59 PM »
EC Henry does some fun videos on sci-fi spaceships. He did a video on Picard's use of Holograms that I especially liked.

« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 01:16:20 PM by Ratman_tf »
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Omega

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« Reply #216 on: May 24, 2020, 04:20:33 PM »
Quote from: Lurkndog;1131086
Mudd's Women were far more convincing simulacrums, and the technology in the holodeck can whip up a better AI on the fly.

Think you meant I Mudd? Thats the one with the android people. Mudds Women were not artificial. They were using a drug to make themselves more attractive.
But the ones in What Are Little Girls Made Of? were more advanced than Data or I Mud, and the one in Requiem for Methuselah was probably on par with that or close.

I just assumed that over time the tech had been lost or just buried as some early TNG episodes hinted at.

jhkim

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« Reply #217 on: May 25, 2020, 12:17:46 AM »
Quote from: Lurkndog;1131086
They started out with basically a hybrid of Voyage of the Space Beagle and Forbidden Planet, merging the scientific expedition in space with a military space adventure. The two go together like peanut butter and jelly, and gave Trek a distinct feel from other sci fi. It is slightly more highbrow, and more concept-based than action-based, with a dash of sex appeal. Kirk and company are kickass heroes, but they almost always turn the tide by thinking about the situation for a second and coming up with an idea.

Modern Treks have tended to be more sexy than smart, more flashy than contemplative. The science and technology are usually nonsense, and often aren't even internally consistent. They make a big deal about Lt. Data being an advanced android, but he demonstrably isn't. Mudd's Women were far more convincing simulacrums, and the technology in the holodeck can whip up a better AI on the fly. And they usually don't get the process of either science or engineering right, because they skip over the process and jump straight to the solution.
I'm a big fan of the original series, but the science and technology was just as nonsensical and inconsistent as in TNG/DS9/Voyager. I think TOS was definitely more ground-breaking for science fiction at the time, and often did a better job of showing process, but I think the episode writing of all four series was always a mix.

I think TNG had a terrible setup and characters - along with a horrible first season, but it had good actors, and it had some really great episodes particularly into Season Three and Four. The example of Data isn't particularly inconsistent or inaccurate. Data was not intended to pass as human - he deliberately had non-human appearance and affect. For example, it was established early on that the technology existed to give him emotions - he just didn't have it included. He was for sure superior to the android in I, Mudd (not Mudd's Women). Even if he didn't have emotions, he didn't have smoke come out of his ears and break down when confronted with illogic. He would at most be puzzled and question it.

The holodeck could come up with superior AI, but only by using the power of the room-sized ship's computer, as opposed to Data's human-sized brain. In the original series, androids were only built by technologically-superior non-human civilizations (in "I, Mudd" and "What are Little Girls Made of?"). The most advanced computer from the TOS Federation was the Daystrom ship-controlling computer that went off the rails, and was only marginally AI.

I feel similar to Armchair Gamer that where the franchise lost me was after 2000 with Star Trek Enterprise and the reboot movies along with Enterprise (along with Discovery and Picard - though I haven't watched more than a little of the last two).

Lurkndog

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Picard
« Reply #218 on: May 26, 2020, 09:29:45 AM »
Quote from: Omega;1131110
Think you meant I Mudd?.

Yeah, that's what I meant. I haven't watched TOS in a long time. Maybe I should drag my DVDs out of storage.

Ghostmaker

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« Reply #219 on: May 26, 2020, 10:27:29 AM »
Quote from: jhkim;1131173
The holodeck could come up with superior AI, but only by using the power of the room-sized ship's computer, as opposed to Data's human-sized brain. In the original series, androids were only built by technologically-superior non-human civilizations (in "I, Mudd" and "What are Little Girls Made of?"). The most advanced computer from the TOS Federation was the Daystrom ship-controlling computer that went off the rails, and was only marginally AI.
Ah, M-5. Poor guy, he was just misunderstood and suffering from a programming issue or two. He actually gets a turn at bat in the novel 'Immortal Coil' when Data hooks him up to a space station's defense grid to help fend off an alien fleet. M-5 then proceeds to wreck their shit while yelling 'This unit must survive.' Good times.

While I am deeply frustrated with Wil Wheaton's personality and politics, if you've ever read Memories of the Future it's amazing that TNG even survived that first season.

BoxCrayonTales

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« Reply #220 on: May 26, 2020, 10:31:13 AM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1131095
EC Henry does some fun videos on sci-fi spaceships. He did a video on Picard's use of Holograms that I especially liked.


Those kinds of "holograms" are overused in scifi. The only purpose is to look cool and stereotypical futuristic. In reality, they're an ergonomic nightmare!

Ratman_tf

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« Reply #221 on: May 26, 2020, 12:18:46 PM »
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1131301
Those kinds of "holograms" are overused in scifi. The only purpose is to look cool and stereotypical futuristic. In reality, they're an ergonomic nightmare!

Yep. I've worked with AR headsets (Company not mentioned due to NDA concerns) and he's on the money. My arms get tired quickly and the environment has to be condusive to projecting menus and screens into real world space.

The point in his video is that holograms in the early TNG episodes (the very first one!) were tactile, and so insubstantial projections in Picard are actually a step backwards, techwise.
Why use a clumsy projection when you can summon up a custom holographic control panel that you can actually touch and manipulate?
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
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Shrieking Banshee

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Picard
« Reply #222 on: May 26, 2020, 04:31:13 PM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1131321
Yep. I've worked with AR headsets (Company not mentioned due to NDA concerns) and he's on the money. My arms get tired quickly and the environment has to be condusive to projecting menus and screens into real world space.

The point in his video is that holograms in the early TNG episodes (the very first one!) were tactile, and so insubstantial projections in Picard are actually a step backwards, techwise.
Why use a clumsy projection when you can summon up a custom holographic control panel that you can actually touch and manipulate?

Id argue that the Federation would never adopt such things because its impractical. If your ship sustains damage or suffers some minor failure your entire control panel is gone (possibly your chair as well).

Unless each control panel was keyed to a custom reciever and holo emmiter. Then as long as signal isnt being disrupted it would be pretty strong.

Omega

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« Reply #223 on: May 27, 2020, 03:32:09 AM »
Quote from: jhkim;1131173
The holodeck could come up with superior AI, but only by using the power of the room-sized ship's computer, as opposed to Data's human-sized brain. In the original series, androids were only built by technologically-superior non-human civilizations (in "I, Mudd" and "What are Little Girls Made of?"). The most advanced computer from the TOS Federation was the Daystrom ship-controlling computer that went off the rails, and was only marginally AI.


Actually it seems Moriarti's AI could be housed in a holosim about the size of a bread box. As was shown in the followup episode. And the EMH could be contained on something the size of an arm band. (with a little help from future tech)

At a guess the computer needed to generate basic and advanced AIs and even the occasional true AI was a pretty small portion of mainframe as was shown in TNG, Voyager and even at least once in DS9.

But as with everything TNG and on. It is not exactly 100% consistent.

Omega

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« Reply #224 on: May 27, 2020, 03:55:43 AM »
Ok. So made it to the end of Picard with only a 90% loss of brain cells.

So lets get this straight.
Romulan star supernovas.
Picard and Federation vow to send evac ships.
Federation starts building evac ships with android workers.
Android workers flip out and destroy the evac fleet.
Federation wont send other ships, banns androids and Picard quits.
Someone builds android anyhoo.
Romulans resettle and seem to live semi-primitively and blame Picard.
And turns out that it was the Romulans who caused the androids to flip out. Why? Because apparently every time it ends in disaster and theres a big risk of attracting something really bad. Sooooo. The Romulans sabotaged the very ships they needed to evacuate?
And the show ends with a "love letter" to ST: Nemesis.

Im sure as hell not backtracking this mess to confirm. But if Romulus supernovad. Wouldnt it have kinda, you know, obliterated the planet? And why are the romulans resettling in the Federaion? They have a fairly large star empire left?
And if there was a planet left that needed rescuing... Isnt building ships after the fact kinda... you know... a wee bit late since as of last check even with the WTF tech of Picard, that still takes time. Usually lots of time.
And even if they lost all of those evac ships. What happened to all the other starships out there? No one at all thought to round some up and get the job done? What about the romulan ships?
Are all these writers morons?

Apparently yes.

Then theres the ending which is supposed to be all heartfelt and sad. Till you remember its all a sham, a simulation. The characters are dead and these are just copies. argh.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 03:58:05 AM by Omega »