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Author Topic: Open letter to OSR and Storygames  (Read 7065 times)

Omega

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Open letter to OSR and Storygames
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2016, 11:34:59 PM »
Quote from: cranebump;910333
The trolls on either side of this non-issue are just two different kinds of control freaks. Or rather, the same kind, but not...Or they...Wait, what were we talking about? (rolls 200d6) Okay, you're all fucking dead.

Thats the other thing that gets annoying as hell. Both sides have these factions of nut cases who go way overboard and are probably the main reasons why both storygames and OSR get looked on negatively by some outside both.

Christopher Brady

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« Reply #46 on: July 29, 2016, 12:12:59 AM »
Quote from: Marleycat;910344
I played OSR type games in the late 1980's and all I found was a bunch of bullshit houserules and worse. Hence the reason I'm not interested unless you say fuck your assumptions and do something interesting like DCC or ACKS. Labyrinth Lord, Castles and Crusades among others for example is boring and I played that already and don't particularly get into it. Excellent rules and games nonetheless.

I believe there's a middle ground that the excluded middle like myself exist in, and we are larger then both your insane and exclusionary groups. I like Did 2e/5e I don't like 0/1e and before or 4e. I like Warhammer, Shadowrun, UA, CrOD and Dresden Files. I don't like the oWoD, Fate or AW. Realize it and don't group me into being a storygamer or OSR type. Accept and understand I'm many types of gamer and like games influenced by both sides and more.

That's the crux of it, OSR and Storygames are bullshit labels that mean nothing except that X person wants to peddle you something, whether for money, or your attention, which legitimizes their existence.  There are as many different styles of gaming that encompass pretty much the same amount of gamers/groups out there.  And have been since 1973 when the ground work for D&D was being laid in some fashion.

Play what you like, as you like, we're all gamers, right?
"And now, my friends, a Dragon's toast!  To life's little blessings:  wars, plagues and all forms of evil.  Their presence keeps us alert --- and their absence makes us grateful." -T.A. Barron[/SIZE]

Marleycat

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« Reply #47 on: July 29, 2016, 12:33:29 AM »
Quote from: Christopher Brady;910361
That's the crux of it, OSR and Storygames are bullshit labels that mean nothing except that X person wants to peddle you something, whether for money, or your attention, which legitimizes their existence.  There are as many different styles of gaming that encompass pretty much the same amount of gamers/groups out there.  And have been since 1973 when the ground work for D&D was being laid in some fashion.

Play what you like, as you like, we're all gamers, right?
Exactly. The excluded middle that just wants to play a simple heroic game like 5e in the Middle Earth isn't your enemy. The enemy is in the basement. Talking about how the art and cover is discriminatory, racist and sexual. And even more irrelevant things. Dude, I want to play my version of Gandalf, Aragón, elves, dwarves etc.

Luckily it seems I'm getting my wish.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 12:49:33 AM by Marleycat »
Don't mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

CRKrueger

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« Reply #48 on: July 29, 2016, 01:32:01 AM »
BTW, the 5e Adventures in Middle Earth Player's Guide and Loremaster's Guide are up for pre-order on Cubicle 7's site.

PDF for Player's Guide should be delivered in August.
Physical book for Player's Guide shipping in the Fall.
PDFs for Loremaster's Guide and Physical book delivered in the Fall.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

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Spinachcat

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« Reply #49 on: July 29, 2016, 04:05:25 AM »
Quote from: Marleycat;910344
I believe there's a middle ground that the excluded middle like myself exist in,

Excluded middle or special snowflakes?

Hey Marleycat, I'm glad to see you back!!


Quote from: Christopher Brady;910361
Play what you like, as you like, we're all gamers, right?

Not really. The kumbaya noise is bullshit.

RPGs are not football or baseball where the uniforms are different, but the game is the same. It's not a unified hobby, and certainly far less so than previously. And that's okay. Instead of unity, everyone can have their own niche.

And if members of some niches want to bitch at each other on the web? So what? It's equally meaningless to the unpaid cheerleaders of Team Red vs. Team Blue duking it out on forums over this election.

Christopher Brady

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« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2016, 03:47:46 PM »
Quote from: Spinachcat;910389
Excluded middle or special snowflakes?

What's so 'special' about playing the game your way? Everyone does it.

Quote from: Spinachcat;910389
Not really. The kumbaya noise is bullshit.

RPGs are not football or baseball where the uniforms are different, but the game is the same. It's not a unified hobby, and certainly far less so than previously. And that's okay. Instead of unity, everyone can have their own niche.

And if members of some niches want to bitch at each other on the web? So what? It's equally meaningless to the unpaid cheerleaders of Team Red vs. Team Blue duking it out on forums over this election.

So you're totally fine with people screaming "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!!!" at each other?  really?

It's attitudes like that one that creates Edition Wars.  Which are unproductive and quite frankly pointless.
"And now, my friends, a Dragon's toast!  To life's little blessings:  wars, plagues and all forms of evil.  Their presence keeps us alert --- and their absence makes us grateful." -T.A. Barron[/SIZE]

Simlasa

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« Reply #51 on: July 29, 2016, 06:20:48 PM »
Quote from: Christopher Brady;910486
So you're totally fine with people screaming "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!!!" at each other?  really?
I've been hearing 'You're doing it wrong!' ever since I started playing RPGs... I think I've even read of St. Gygax uttering it, or something similar, from time to time.
As long as it's not breaking out into real world harassment/violence... meh.

My position is... I like RPGs AND (sometimes) Storygames... I can see the appeal of each. What I don't like are games that mix the two... just like I don't want games with levels/classes and skills. I WANT a firm division because those things appeal to me in very different ways.
Similarly, I get my hackles up when people suggest my love for older games is 'nostalgia'... even if I only played the thing for the first time a week ago. Also, when they insist their preferences in games are more 'modern' or 'evolved'... 'progressive'... so my favorite game could really use a dose of theirs... they love Fate so all games now go better with Aspects or whatever.
I don't seem to notice much flow in the opposite direction... "Gee, your Storygame could really use some more complex fatigue rules..."

I didn't appreciate the insertion of Storygame elements into the new edition of COC... such as suggestions that the Players and the GM are competing for narrative control... so I won't buy it (all the talk about Players in 'simulationist' games not having any narrative control is bullshit anyway).
Stuff like Rosen McStern is pushing... shoving storygame mechanics into 'traditional' D100 rules... is just dead in the water for me.

But I'd happily play a game of My Life With Master.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 06:30:43 PM by Simlasa »

Christopher Brady

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« Reply #52 on: July 29, 2016, 06:38:50 PM »
Quote from: Simlasa;910506
I've been hearing 'You're doing it wrong!' ever since I started playing RPGs... I think I've even read of St. Gygax uttering it, or something similar, from time to time.
As long as it's not breaking out into real world harassment/violence... meh.

My point is:  It's still not right.

This a cooperative hobby, and we should be willing to allow others to join it.  More gamers means more potential players.  And after 42 fucking years of being shoved into the marginalized group of 'Nerd' or 'Geek' or whatever label we want to jack off at, just because I like to sketch and write as a hobby, I'd rather have more people willing to cooperate and be afraid of people who are different.  Which in EXTREME cases DOES lead to violence.

We have enough of that in the world, thank you.  I'd like for it to happen even less than it does now.

Quote from: Simlasa;910506
My position is... I like RPGs AND (sometimes) Storygames... I can see the appeal of each. What I don't like are games that mix the two... just like I don't want games with levels/classes and skills. I WANT a firm division because those things appeal to me in very different ways.
Similarly, I get my hackles up when people suggest my love for older games is 'nostalgia'... even if I only played the thing for the first time a week ago. Also, when they insist their preferences in games are more 'modern' or 'evolved'... 'progressive'... so my favorite game could really use a dose of theirs... they love Fate so all games now go better with Aspects or whatever.
I don't seem to notice much flow in the opposite direction... "Gee, your Storygame could really use some more complex fatigue rules..."

I didn't appreciate the insertion of Storygame elements into the new edition of COC... such as suggestions that the Players and the GM are competing for narrative control... so I won't buy it (all the talk about Players in 'simulationist' games not having any narrative control is bullshit anyway).
Stuff like Rosen McStern is pushing... shoving storygame mechanics into 'traditional' D100 rules... is just dead in the water for me.

But I'd happily play a game of My Life With Master.

I don't know, I'm not sure that keeping them separate will work for much longer.  There will always be outliers and ends of the a spectrum, but a merging and mixing of ideas is going to happen.  Oh, it won't be a perfect mix with 50% of each form of idea, but even if it's 70/30, it will be there.

Again, personally, even if I don't care for the implementation, I'm glad there is one for people who do.
"And now, my friends, a Dragon's toast!  To life's little blessings:  wars, plagues and all forms of evil.  Their presence keeps us alert --- and their absence makes us grateful." -T.A. Barron[/SIZE]

Simlasa

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« Reply #53 on: July 29, 2016, 06:55:45 PM »
Quote from: Christopher Brady;910513
My point is:  It's still not right.
Yeah, but like a lot of dumb stuff it's just human nature and won't be changing any time soon. Some/most people will find their way past it and others won't. Until it crosses over into actual abuse it's just noise. The best I can do is try to refrain from it myself.

Quote
I don't know, I'm not sure that keeping them separate will work for much longer.
Why? Why is one preference an imperative on the other? People like boardgames... is it a given that more RPGs will be played on boards with meeples and pop-o-matics? Why is it destined to be a all-in-one pudding of bacon and chocolate and cheese just because those are things people like?

jeff37923

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« Reply #54 on: July 29, 2016, 07:13:00 PM »
Quote from: Christopher Brady;910486
So you're totally fine with people screaming "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!!!" at each other?  really?

It's attitudes like that one that creates Edition Wars.  Which are unproductive and quite frankly pointless.


Actually, it is attitudes like yours which seem to be afraid of confrontation that are the problem.

That last time someone came up to me screaming "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!!!", I told them to go fuck themselves and go play the game how they feel that they should. Problem was solved in less than a minute.

Necrozius

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« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2016, 07:21:46 PM »
Jesus Christ I take a few weeks off of Google + and forums in general only to come back and find that more internet drama fests are in full swing.

What in the fuck is wrong with the "gaming community"? Why can't the factions that despise each other just block/ignore/mute the other? God damn.

*spins around on one foot, heads back out the door*

Alderaan Crumbs

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« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2016, 07:29:02 PM »
Quote from: AsenRG;910077
Two days after I last heard someone say "Hey, let's go out for some US food";).

Food here kicks ass because we have pretty much everything. Noms!!! And we don't perform emoticon bukkake.

But seriously, as far as the OP goes...um...what? I'm lost. Meaning: Just fucking play games and chill.

Unless it's Ex3. You can shit all over that.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 07:34:42 PM by Alderaan Crumbs »
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AsenRG

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Open letter to OSR and Storygames
« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2016, 07:48:08 PM »
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;910525
Food here kicks ass because we have pretty much everything. Noms!!!

Meaning, you have the same as in Canada, except they've got better mapple syrup;).

Quote
And we don't perform emoticon bukkake.

How did you get from food to being sexually repressed? That was sudden even for TRS:D!
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cranebump

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« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2016, 08:14:00 PM »
Quote from: Necrozius;910524
Jesus Christ I take a few weeks off of Google + and forums in general only to come back and find that more internet drama fests are in full swing.

What in the fuck is wrong with the "gaming community"? Why can't the factions that despise each other just block/ignore/mute the other? God damn.

*spins around on one foot, heads back out the door*

No kidding. The conservative and liberal wings of the RPG party are throwing shit back and forth, forcing the vast middle to walk through it. Sound and fury, as we all know.
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trechriron

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« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2016, 08:35:07 PM »
There IS a way to do RPGs wrong.

NOT having fun. That's plainly wrong.

If a game or a situation or a ruling is NOT fun, you're doing it wrong. If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong. If you're having fun, but everyone else is fucking miserable, you're doing it wrong. If everyone else is fucking pleased as chickens in a grain silo, but you feel like a chicken cooking in a missile silo, you're doing it WRONG. FUN = RIGHT (CORRECT). NOT FUN = WRONG (INCORRECT).

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The rest is just profundity or imprudence depending on our moods.
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