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Marcia Lucas, Howard Kazanjian rip on Star Wars sequels.

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Eirikrautha:

--- Quote from: jhkim on October 05, 2021, 02:49:43 AM ---
--- Quote from: Eirikrautha on October 04, 2021, 08:38:02 PM ---All of which means she knows a shitload more about movie making than you do.
--- End quote ---

Possibly. But if successful film credits are the metric, then other film-makers know even more about film than she does - including figures like Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy. Or even Verna Fields.

I think for artistic fields, arguing from authority is weak in the first place

And if one is going to argue from authority, then I'd pick someone who seems like more of an authority in their field.

--- End quote ---

The metric is "successful Star Wars film credits," which means that she has infinitely more authority than Ruin Johnson and KK(K).  She is credited with establishing many of the continuity improvements in the original film, which means she knows a lot more about telling a good "Star Wars" story than even George Lucas himself (as evidenced by the prequel series).  Why does it bother you so much that the sequels are terrible?  You just can't stand the thought that woke writers, directors, and producers are just not capable of creating good, mythic, stories?

Ghostmaker:

--- Quote from: Ratman_tf on October 05, 2021, 10:18:36 AM ---
--- Quote from: jhkim on October 05, 2021, 02:49:43 AM ---
--- Quote from: Eirikrautha on October 04, 2021, 08:38:02 PM ---All of which means she knows a shitload more about movie making than you do.
--- End quote ---

Possibly. But if successful film credits are the metric,

--- End quote ---

As a rebuttal to this metric, I put forth Michael Bay.

--- End quote ---
In Bay's defense, his movies typically get done on time, within budget, and at least make bank.

Yes, he has an addiction to pyrotechnics, slow-mo circle shots, and sunsets. Nobody's perfect.

jhkim:

--- Quote from: Eirikrautha on October 05, 2021, 10:56:47 PM ---The metric is "successful Star Wars film credits," which means that she has infinitely more authority than Ruin Johnson and KK(K).  She is credited with establishing many of the continuity improvements in the original film, which means she knows a lot more about telling a good "Star Wars" story than even George Lucas himself (as evidenced by the prequel series).  Why does it bother you so much that the sequels are terrible?  You just can't stand the thought that woke writers, directors, and producers are just not capable of creating good, mythic, stories?
--- End quote ---

I think that liberal creators can both create crap as well as great stories - and the same for conservative creators. Even the same creator can make good stories as well as crap.

George Lucas created the crap prequels as well as the excellent original trilogy. After the original series, my favorite Star Wars film is Rogue One - which had many woke creators like Chris Weitz and Gary Whitta. I've also liked a lot of The Mandalorian, which has many woke creators.

Ratman_tf:

--- Quote from: Ghostmaker on October 06, 2021, 09:34:37 AM ---
--- Quote from: Ratman_tf on October 05, 2021, 10:18:36 AM ---
--- Quote from: jhkim on October 05, 2021, 02:49:43 AM ---
--- Quote from: Eirikrautha on October 04, 2021, 08:38:02 PM ---All of which means she knows a shitload more about movie making than you do.
--- End quote ---

Possibly. But if successful film credits are the metric,

--- End quote ---

As a rebuttal to this metric, I put forth Michael Bay.

--- End quote ---
In Bay's defense, his movies typically get done on time, within budget, and at least make bank.

Yes, he has an addiction to pyrotechnics, slow-mo circle shots, and sunsets. Nobody's perfect.

--- End quote ---

Those are the least issues I have with Bay's films. 

Elfdart:

--- Quote from: jhkim on October 05, 2021, 02:49:43 AM ---
--- Quote from: Eirikrautha on October 04, 2021, 08:38:02 PM ---All of which means she knows a shitload more about movie making than you do.
--- End quote ---

Possibly. But if successful film credits are the metric, then other film-makers know even more about film than she does - including figures like Rian Johnson and Kathleen Kennedy. Or even Verna Fields.

I think for artistic fields, arguing from authority is weak in the first place

And if one is going to argue from authority, then I'd pick someone who seems like more of an authority in their field.

--- End quote ---

Marcia Lucas played an important role in making some of the greatest films of all time. She's the one who organized and shot the screen tests for the actors trying out for The Godfather. She was also the one who lobbied hard for Al Pacino to get the part of Michael Corleone when Paramount wanted Ryan O'Neal or Robert Redford in the role.



Her role in Star Wars is way overstated (as she herself makes clear in the Kazanjian book), but she did an Oscar-winning job by editing the last battle in a way that built tension to point where audiences went nuts when Harrison Ford flew to the rescue. Martin Scorsese, John Milius, Brian DePalma, Francis Coppola and Steven Spielberg all thought she was a great talent in her own right. Milius went so far as to say that when Marcia Lucas retired from film to be a stay-at-home mom, the movies lost one the most talented artists of their generation.

Marcia Lucas forgot more about how to make movies than J.J. Abrams or Rian Johnson will ever learn.

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