Didn't we (and by that I mean some kooks completely unassociated with me) already determine that soy was the cause of homosexuality?

That and Spongebob.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Serious PaulNow personally I think the institution of Marriage is garbage, and steeped way too deeply in the Judeo-christian traditions. I think civil contracts should be as far as the government gets involved, but I may as well be pissing into a strong wind these days.

I'm right there with you. I'm opposed to gay marriage AND straight marriage.  

The only government involvement should be enforcing the terms of any civil contract the parties may come up with themselves.

A shame we can't make that law here in the United States.

Quote from: TechnomancerI'm right there with you. I'm opposed to gay marriage AND straight marriage.  

The only government involvement should be enforcing the terms of any civil contract the parties may come up with themselves.

You know, I've actually had several religious folks agree with this approach.  I challenged a couple of older non-blood related folks on this a couple of years ago, and when the discussion got right down to it, this is what really bothers them - that the term marriage, generally considered a religious endeavor, is being used as a term to describe something frowned upon by their religion.

I bet, Serious Paul, you'd get more support for this than you think.  The biggest obstacle I see is the overhaul of legislation that it would require (as well as some other sticking points like "Can I be in a civil union with my brother and/or sister?")

IMHO, FWIW, YMMV, etc.

Problem is, as I see t, American law is not based off of the desires or needs of the American people. But rather they're purchased by a select few. I try not to be cynical, but I work in Law Enforcement, and it's hard not to be.

Quote from: Dominus NoxThis whole gay marriage thing brings up an interesting issue: How far does "majority rule" go?
So I'm in favor of gay marriage laws, and if 'the majority' doesn't like it, then it can just live with it. Allowing people with differeing views to have their rights respected within reason is part of living in a civillized society.

Over here in Blighty we have just had some hardline Christians and Muslims demonstrating against a proposed law against discrimination of gays.It is active in Northern Ireland, and could lead to anyone, such as a hotel manager, facing criminal charges should they refuse two gay people a room together.
It seems that these hardliners want the right to be intolerant bigots. Maybe they should group together to buy an island somewhere far away from the modern world.

Quote from: AnthrobotIt seems that these hardliners want the right to be intolerant bigots.

Or maybe they have the crazy idea that they should be able to decide who they let onto their own property and who they associate with.  

You know, freedom?

Quote from: TechnomancerYou know, freedom?

Oh yes

"No blacks, no dogs, no Irish."

Freedom

Quote from: AnthrobotOver here in Blighty we have just had some hardline Christians and Muslims demonstrating against a proposed law against discrimination of gays.It is active in Northern Ireland, and could lead to anyone, such as a hotel manager, facing criminal charges should they refuse two gay people a room together.
It seems that these hardliners want the right to be intolerant bigots.

They ALREADY have the right to be intolerant bigots.  There's no law in the world against having hateful and prejudiced opinions.  What they want to retain is the right to refuse service to people on the basis of said bigotry.

Quote from: Hastur T. FannonOh yes

"No blacks, no dogs, no Irish."

Freedom

Dogs? Is dog discrimination a problem where you are?

For the record, yes, those laws are an infringement on freedom as well.  No one should be forced to associate with people they don't want to.

Quote from: TechnomancerDogs? Is dog discrimination a problem where you are?

If you don't recognise the quote or can't grok the reference from context, google it

Quote from: TechnomancerFor the record, yes, those laws are an infringement on freedom as well. No one should be forced to associate with people they don't want to.

If Mummy and Daddy didn't teach you why discrimination based on racial origin, sex (or anything else that the object of your prejudice has no control over) is a Bad Thing, then it's not my job to educate you

Quote from: Hastur T. FannonIf Mummy and Daddy didn't teach you why discrimination based on racial origin, sex (or anything else that the object of your prejudice has no control over) is a Bad Thing, then it's not my job to educate you

I don't think he's saying discrimination is 'right' or in fact isn't a 'bad thing'. I think he's making an interesting point about where Freedom and Culture collide.  

Freedom means being able to be a dick to someone for any reason at all, Culturally we demand 'equal rights' which is a horse of another color all together. It is the practice of instituitionalized prejudice against people of certain color or nationality taht led to laws prohibiting such behavior.  One store owner being a dick to, say... Koreans isn't a problem. Koreans take their business elsewhere where they are wanted. Every businessman being a dick to Koreans is a problem, they have no where to go, and under the circumstances can't even try to start up their own businesses.  Thus the law must step in to enforce equality over freedom.

Unless you live in the woods you aren't really free at all.

Quote from: Hastur T. FannonIf Mummy and Daddy didn't teach you why discrimination based on racial origin, sex (or anything else that the object of your prejudice has no control over) is a Bad Thing, then it's not my job to educate you

Sure, they taught me it's not nice. But it's not the government's job to make people be nice, the government's job is to protect the life, liberty, and property of its citizens.  Forcing a person to associate with someone they don't want to is a deprivation of their liberty.  

Do you also think a gay rights organization should be forced to do business with or hire an ultraconservative anti-gay rights bigot?

I'm all for everyone having the same rights.  But if I'm running a business it belongs to me, it's my property, you have no right to the product or service I am providing if I choose not to give it to you.  Just like if a black person or homosexual didn't want to do business with me because I was white and straight, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

Quote from: SpikeFreedom means being able to be a dick to someone for any reason at all...

Is that what freedom is? Huh.