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Author Topic: I declare the swine wars to be over. We will now commence the Siege.  (Read 6265 times)

James J Skach

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I declare the swine wars to be over. We will now commence the Siege.
« Reply #135 on: August 04, 2007, 08:44:41 am »
Quote from: Kyle Aaron
That's funny, when I came up with d4-d4, a lot of the stuff in that seemed new to me. But I didn't feel any urge to have a go at "traditional" gaming. I felt more like it was traditional - traditional in the sense of how games are often played (fast and loose, over 6-12 sessions with half the people not knowing the rules or paying much attention to what's going on) rather than how they're usually designed. So it had some new stuff, but was overall not new, if that makes any sense.

It's what I've said about rpgs before - they're like lego sets, each set has mostly the same bunch of pieces you had before, if you're lucky there might be one or two new pieces, but generally each set is just the old pieces put together in a new way. But the new way's interesting and fun, so you're happy to buy the set. To my mind, an "innovative roleplaying game!" is like an "innovative lego set!" I just go, "really? how?!"

And then you get guys like Clash who openly express fear of doing anything "new and original". "If I have an original thought in game design, I quickly smother it in its crib before it can get out and do any damage."

Things don't have to be all super-original to be fun and interesting. But I guess some people don't feel that way. Beats me, really.

Ok Kyle..I'm sorry I didn't mention you and d4-d4:D :p
The rules are my slave, not my master. - Old Geezer

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James J Skach

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I declare the swine wars to be over. We will now commence the Siege.
« Reply #136 on: August 04, 2007, 08:48:14 am »
Quote from: Stumpydave
So, with apologies if I come across as ignorant or somesuch, whats the point of all this.  I mean all of it, the forge theory approach, the death to all swine approach from here.  Constant sniping and bickering not just about the games you play but about how you play them.

Or does it just boil down to the fact that some people have nothing better to do in their lives than belittle others?

No, but there are a bunch of people who are adherants of a theory they claim describes all of gaming.

While I'm playing, which, unfortunately isn't often enough these days, it matters little.  When I'm thinking about design, examples of how others have done things, how dice variations effect odds and the feel of a game...then it matters to me very much.

The former I do away from the computer, that latter I do on the computer. Your flaw is believing this is all I do, not seeing the rest of my life.
The rules are my slave, not my master. - Old Geezer

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Kyle Aaron

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I declare the swine wars to be over. We will now commence the Siege.
« Reply #137 on: August 04, 2007, 08:55:18 am »
Quote from: James J Skach
Ok Kyle..I'm sorry I didn't mention you and d4-d4:D :p

Well, I was just talking about a game designer I happen to know fairly well. I don't understand this urge to claim to be new and radical and so much better than other gamers, that's all I was saying, really.

Superiority, whether it comes from Uncle Ronny or this Prussian lunatic - I don't really understand the motivation.
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Arminius

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I declare the swine wars to be over. We will now commence the Siege.
« Reply #138 on: August 04, 2007, 10:21:01 am »
Quote from: Stumpydave
So, with apologies if I come across as ignorant or somesuch, whats the point of all this.  I mean all of it, the forge theory approach, the death to all swine approach from here.  Constant sniping and bickering not just about the games you play but about how you play them.
Part of it's defensive. You get somebody pushing their methods or their game, arrogantly assuming everyone else is after the same thing, and that creates a need to explain why that isn't so. (If you go back into rec.games.frp.advocacy archives and search on Theatrix or David Berkman, you'll find that reaction to Berkman was a major impetus behind the development of the Threefold. Personally I think too many people paid him too much attention, but I still think the ideas are valid on the whole.)

The other part as I said is the need for a critical vocabulary, or at least a critical framework, so that people can discuss games without confusing goals & methods. Some methods work for some goals and not others.

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I declare the swine wars to be over. We will now commence the Siege.
« Reply #139 on: August 07, 2007, 08:48:03 pm »
Does anyone here still remember the name of the arch-nemesis group to the S.W.I.N.E. ?  And what does S.W.I.N.E. stand for anyway?

Gunslinger

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« Reply #140 on: August 07, 2007, 08:51:20 pm »
Story Warriors Instigating Narrative Experience