Kudos/Commentary: Q&A Thread, Luke Crane

[One Horse Town]

So it does really come down to marketing? Cool. :pundit:

[Alnag]

As I've said elsewhere, my attention-whore complex welcomes any Q&A spotlight that you choose to shine upon me

Yeah. And you are actually not only dodging but hell missing something, that might have been the very first question of that future Q&A. Bad for you. And yet again... bad for you for inability to even try to provide some serious evidence for your claims.

[Brantai]

Yeah. And you are actually not only dodging but hell missing something, that might have been the very first question of that future Q&A. Bad for you. And yet again... bad for you for inability to even try to provide some serious evidence for your claims.

You're wanting him to give you his accounting info or sales number or something?  That's going pretty far out of your way to prove to J. Random Internet guy that your game isn't tanking.

[Alnag]

You're wanting him to give you his accounting info or sales number or something?  That's going pretty far out of your way to prove to J. Random Internet guy that your game isn't tanking.

Listen, if someone is brave enought that he can claim, that GM-less games do not suffer by contrast with GM-centric games, than he should have hell a good evidence for that. Thanx to the fact, he is author of one he has one part of the equation. The other part is at least partially available online. We know how DitV is doing at the very least. Acutally, I knew rough estimate of few others too...

We know, how Dogs are doing. How good is one of the successeful GM-with and GM-less game doing? That is at least some evidence. So what we are missing, is some similar graph from Tony. ;-)

[Abyssal Maw]

You're wanting him to give you his accounting info or sales number or something?  That's going pretty far out of your way to prove to J. Random Internet guy that your game isn't tanking.

If he doesn't provide proof, why should he be allowed to bring it up?

On another site, they are discussing this exact topic, but more in the terms of "how can we use those RPGsite conversations to help us sell stuff?"

In point of fact, I'm convinced that games like capes and polaris don't sell well (or possibly at all) outside of the forgie wind-tunnel, and they certainly aren't played very much outside of the Very Special Arrangement of Gamers type get-togethers and demo-fests these guys have been reduced to.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's too bad the days of free-game on-the-web have kind of disappeared. I hear John Kim could barely find contenders for that category of the indie awards this year.

[TonyLB]

Well, I'm not doing as well as DitV, but I'm in the same ballpark.  Book's been out for a bit more than two years, and my rough estimate is that I've sold somewhere around 1000 copies ... maybe 2/3rds of that print, 1/3 PDF.

Vincent's doing a bit better, though.  Poor me

Does that work for you, proof-wise?

And where's my freakin' Q&A thread? :mad:

[TonyLB]

In point of fact, I'm convinced that games like capes and polaris don't sell well (or possibly at all) outside of the forgie wind-tunnel

Proof?

[Brantai]

But how do we know you didn't just make that number up, you big liar you!

The "proof" game could go on forever, and at some point you're going to have to take him at his word about something.

[Alnag]

And where's my freakin' Q&A thread? :mad:

Don't worry... you will have it...

[Alnag]

But how do we know you didn't just make that number up, you big liar you!

He can make the number up. But with concrete number (or rather graph) he migth very well destroy his reputation in the community, where no doubt somebody has better idea than us. So yes, he can lie. But is is much harder and dangerous to lie concretely, than just sligthly bend truth with phrases. Got it?

[Brantai]

He can make the number up. But with concrete number (or rather graph) he migth very well destroy his reputation in the community, where no doubt somebody has better idea than us. So yes, he can lie. But is is much harder and dangerous to lie concretely, than just sligthly bend truth with phrases. Got it?

So you're pretty much dedicated to reading everything he says in the worst faith possible.  Got it.

[Settembrini]

I would like to point to the fact, that every thread in which they are talked about, sells books.

So they are using us to make more money.

Fuck you for that.

I advise everybody to ignore them, their games, and never ever talk to or about them again.

[Abyssal Maw]

Proof?

The proof will be anyone independently discussing your game in an objective way.

This hasn't happened outside the cave yet.

To be fair, it hasn't happened to a lot of small press games either, even the ones I actually like (Faery's Tale or OSRIC or whatever). Incidentally, note the logo here?

http://www.rpgnow.com/

"The Leading source for Indie RPGS".
 
My intel tentacles are fairly extensive, Tony. If I haven't seen the independently organized and enthusiastic capes fan community and you have, let me know.

[James J Skach]

One thing I can honestly say is that I've never considered Tony to be selling his game here. Other places - I don't know.  But here?

[Ben Lehman]

Capes sells well.  Polaris sells well (according to IPR numbers and what Ben tells me).  You said GMless games weren't successful, and at least by that measure you're provably mistaken.  Make of that what you will.

Just to confirm: Polaris has sold, I dunno, I think about 1000 copies in two years? I don't do Vincent's nifty spreadsheets, so I've done a terrible job of keeping track.

It also gets played a lot, at least according to all the e-mail I get reading "we've been playing your game for the last year and thanks very much for it!"

Those e-mails are, bar none, the best thing about designing games.

yrs--
--Ben