Quote from: One Horse TownCome on guys. Everyone knows that the real threat to us is someone walking into your house/place of work and blowing themselves up.

no, no, the real threat is someone close to you going haywire or whatever and killing you!  

that, or transfats, or killer african bees or something

I hereby hang up my satirists hat.

Edit: Actually, African bees are here, i tell you! They're here!

Quote from: David Johansensigh...pultnyplasticcollective...I guess flogging her amature porn to Waakashani while proclaiming the truth of the Mormon church was original at least.

I'd be lying if I said the day she got banned wasn't the happiest day of my internet life.

PPC was a fake.

The photos?  Taken from the site of a woman named Dawn, who's Canadian, and most certainly not the gamer type.  (Dawn appeared on TechTV's Unscrewed as part of the host's segment about camwhores doing trivia while semi-naked; not a great show that was.)

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerPPC was a fake.

The photos?  Taken from the site of a woman named Dawn, who's Canadian, and most certainly not the gamer type.  (Dawn appeared on TechTV's Unscrewed as part of the host's segment about camwhores doing trivia while semi-naked; not a great show that was.)

I fucking knew it. Who says noodling around with net porn never taught you anything.

:sweatdrop:

Well, you know what I mean.

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerPPC was a fake.

The photos?  Taken from the site of a woman named Dawn, who's Canadian, and most certainly not the gamer type.  (Dawn appeared on TechTV's Unscrewed as part of the host's segment about camwhores doing trivia while semi-naked; not a great show that was.)

Interesting, I can half-way believe it given just how screwy her whole line was.  On the other hand she could have been what she said she was, only using pictures of someone more attractive.

Quote from: David JohansenInteresting, I can half-way believe it given just how screwy her whole line was.  On the other hand she could have been what she said she was, only using pictures of someone more attractive.

Actually, if I recall, PPC was a guy. So, there's something to think about; an internet meme in action!

An important lesson learned from playing on various World of Darkness MUSHes from the mid-90s: If you're approached by a self-described hot bi-sexual woman who wants to share pictures of herself and chat dirty with you, better than 9 out of 10 times it's a guy.  PPC totally fit the mould.

!i!

Quote from: BalbinusNot responding to every point doesn't mean not reading them, for me at least if I don't respond to a point it's more likely because I don't have the time to post the kind of response it would deserve.  I'm surprised Kyle has the time to post his.

Along with roleplaying, an interest/hobby of mine is permaculture, democracy, and a future for the world. In current times those turn out to be pretty strongly-connected.

For example, a sensible energy policy would be to have distributed renewable energy - solar panels on homes, solar thermal and/or wind in neighbourhoods, rather than One Big Facility somewhere out in the sticks. It's sensible in terms of energy security, because some day fossil fuels will run short or be prohibitively expensive; it's sensible in terms of defence security, because terrorists or an enemy state can blow up One Big Facility but not millions of small ones; and it's sensible in terms of democracy, because when people get what they need from their own backyards, it's harder for a central government to compell them.

So, permaculture, democracy and a future for the world are things I'm interested in and study. Just as a keen D&Der can rattle off the rules without looking them up, I can rattle off this stuff without much effort.

Now, do I have the time for this? Well, I have the time in my day, I'm not pressed for every minute. But still, I like to try to spend my time on things which are either productive or entertaining, preferably both.

Dealing with the ignorant is productive, because you can educate them; dealing with the wilfully ignorant is unproductive, but sometimes entertaining. Wilfully ignorant guys like Koltar, after you've made fun of them for a bit it gets dull, he's just all-round ignorant. A decent person, but not knowledgeable about the world. But wilfully ignorant guys like Morrow are just frustrating. That's because he's an intelligent guy. It's like an eagle putting blinders on himself - excellent eyesight, but narrow view.

Quote from: BalbinusOf course, if I don't reply, I can't expect to change your mind, but that's a choice I make with any post I choose not to reply to or only to partially reply to.

You can't change their minds, mate. Their position is philosophical. It's a worldview. It's like that example I have of "philosophy" in d4-d4.
   
Philosophy
This represents for most people not a whole system of thought carefully considered and logically presented with footnotes, like a Kantian book of epistemology; instead, it's simply the filter through which they view the world, the way they interpret events. They interpret events so as to support their Philosophy. Also, they seek out events that support their philosophy: a Capitalist starts a business; a Catholic goes to Lourdes to see a miracle; an Empirical Scientist, if they don't actually have a career in science, joins the Sceptic's Society or watches science documentaries.

Example: A person has a long illness, and is told they've six months to live; they pray to Jesus, and live on, recovering fully.

The Empirical Scientist will call this a "spontaneous remission," and perhaps think it'd be good to study the hormonal effects of prayer, and whether those hormones promote natural antibodies, and...

Whereas the Charismatic Christian will say, "it's a miracle." The same event is thus interpreted differently by different Philosophies. In all philosophies, people tend to look for evidence to support their point of view: the Empirical Scientist sees "facts" everywhere, while the Charismatic Christian sees "miracles" everywhere. Of course, there are different degrees of philosophy.
So for example we see economic rationalists and communists both say, "our system will give happiness and prosperity to all." When you point out that it's been tried and didn't work, they say, "oh but really it did work... or if it didn't work, it's because it wasn't tried properly, or for long enough." Whatever data they're given, they twist it to support their philosophy. So if communism or economic rationalism give good results, that proves they work; if they give bad results, that proves they weren't tried properly or for long enough, so obviously they still work anyway; no matter what the data, the conclusion is proven.

A bit like old Freud and young Dora; Dora was a patient who came in complaining that her father was molesting her. But because her father was someone Freud knew, a fine chap all round, Freud thought it couldn't possibly be so. And so he said that Dora desired her father, was ashamed of it, and sublimated her shameful desires into fantasies that her father desired her, and did something about it. A neat theory, that denial - if Dora says, "yes, Dr Freud, I do desire my father", that proves his theory; if Dora says, "no, of course I don't you freak", that proves his theory, too! Neat! Whatever the data, the theory is proved! Awesome!

That's what we're seeing in these kinds of discussions from the Morrows and Koltars of the world. It's this immersion in their own philosophy. "Because I find the world too complicated to understand, obviously no scientist could ever understand it. So I can just ignore science and believe whatever I reckon."

Now, this sort of thing has happened many times before in history. The world changes faster than many people can understand it, or even accept that it is changing. We've had half a century of the greatest material prosperity that the common people of an entire civilisation have ever known. That it might end is unimaginable. Oh, sure, we can imagine it intellectually, write about it - but we can't imagine it in that real gut way, that way that makes us get our shit together in a sock and wire it tight, and fucking well do something about it.

Really, almost all of us are climate change deniers, if you go by our actions rather than our words. If you saw a guy on the train tracks fiddling about, and heard the horn of an oncoming train, and the guy said, "sure, I believe the train's coming," but he kept fucking about - well, you'd doubt whether he really believed it was coming.

Now, I actually do have time to argue with the guy on the tracks. But I can't really be arsed. I'm busy getting off the tracks myself. I'd rather focus my efforts on things which are productive, or at least entertaining.

Talking to Koltar, John Morrow and similar people about climate change and the like is neither productive nor entertaining, because they're wilfully ignorant. Talking to them about rpg stuff is sometimes productive, and almost always entertaining, because that's something they know about - and also something their minds are open about. It's easier to be open-minded about trivialities.

Sometimes I talk with these guys about important stuff anyway because I have hope, that quality which my friend - who stuck with a game group he wasn't enjoying - told me "separates us from the alien races." But after one or two exchanges I remember just how hopeless it is and I leave them to it.

Some people are just really fucking good at ignoring reality. I was reading Goebbel's diaries once, and in February 1945, with two million Red Army soldiers across the Vistula and a million Allied soldiers across the Rhine, with Italy surrendered and Yugoslavia abandoned, Dresden firebombed and 200,000 people killed in one night, Goebbels was discussing with the Fuhrer... income tax reform.

That's far from unique in human history. Luckily, unanimity is not required for useful change. We can afford to leave a few clueless buggers lolling about saying, "well, it's a complicated problem, let's look at... let's not decide too hastily... after all, if we wait long enough maybe someone else will have to deal with it instead." Bugger that lot.

Man, Kyle is Pundit.

If you think like him, you're on top of the world.  If you don't, you're mired in a philosophy and can't think properly.

The irony of pointing it out the Freud example while doing the same thing in the post is fantastic.

Being an impatient/lazy/stupid/willfully-ignorant American, I just wish he'd do it in less words.

Quote from: Kyle AaronLuckily, unanimity is not required for useful change. We can afford to leave a few clueless buggers lolling about saying, "well, it's a complicated problem, let's look at... let's not decide too hastily... after all, if we wait long enough maybe someone else will have to deal with it instead." Bugger that lot.

Hear, hear!  Too bad there's so many of them.

Quote from: James J SkachMan, Kyle is Pundit.

If you think like him, you're on top of the world.  If you don't, you're mired in a philosophy and can't think properly.

The irony of pointing it out the Freud example while doing the same thing in the post is fantastic.

Being an impatient/lazy/stupid/willfully-ignorant American, I just wish he'd do it in less words.

As opposed to you, who are quick to tear down another's ideas but lack any alternative course of action?

Quote from: Old GeezerAs opposed to you, who are quick to tear down another's ideas but lack any alternative course of action?

What "ideas" were there?

EDITED TO ADD: If you're talking about his permaculture and so forth, I'd be happy to discuss them with him.  I just heard a gentlemen talking about it on (gasp!) NPR the other day and I was interested in how he thought it would work large scale.  Alas, I had to get in to work.

But Kyle isn't here (in this thread) to talk about his ideas.  He's here to bash people who don't agree with him as ignorant. For example:

QuoteTalking to Koltar, John Morrow and similar people about climate change and the like is neither productive nor entertaining, because they're wilfully ignorant.

Now I don't think Koltar had any specifics, but Morrow was hardly willfully ignorant - he just disagree with Kyle.

So forgive me if I tire of Kyle's holier(smarter)-than-thou attitude when really it boils down to "If you agree with me, you're obviously a rational, right-thinking person.  If you don't agree with me, you're willfully ignorant"

Quote from: James J SkachI just heard a gentlemen talking about it on (gasp!) NPR the other day...

Report for re-education, citizen.

!i!

yeah, you know us crazy lazy stupid American wild-eyed right wing zealots who don't listen to other points of view...

Surely you mean "crazy lazy stupid American piggy-eyed right wing zealots".

!i!