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The Lounge => Media and Inspiration => Topic started by: cavalier973 on February 02, 2022, 11:10:23 PM

Title: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: cavalier973 on February 02, 2022, 11:10:23 PM
It was fine. Not really scary, but maybe it was terrifying when it came out. There are some interesting sections, interspersed with tedious passages involving declarations of how everyone is just the wonderfulest friends anyone can have.

I had watched the Lugosi flick years ago, and don’t really remember it, to compare. It seems that they merged a couple of characters for the movie. I have heard that the Mexican version (filmed in the same studio at the same time as Lugosi’s version, only at night) is superior to the American version. I haven’t seen the more recent movie versions. I understand that the newer versions are heavy on the sexual themes and visuals, but these elements seem absent from the novel, though there are sections containing mild sensuality.

Dracula himself is an abhorrent character, not a romantic figure, and his victims are appropriately tormented and terrified by him.

My favorite part of the book was the beginning, which is the journal of Jonathan Harker, which contains the account of Harker’s visit to Castle Dracula.

My least favorite part was the aforementioned declarations of friendship and admiration. It seems that anytime there is a potential for a serious break in the company, it is immediately resolved by one character and pledging his life to the cause, and everybody else backs down and recommits to the fellowship. There is a lot of crying. It made me laugh aloud.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: cavalier973 on February 02, 2022, 11:24:10 PM
SPOILERS




One of my frustrations with the story is how little insight the characters have, even the vaunted Prof. Van Helsing. They (eventually) know that they are dealing with a vampire, and have lost one companion to him already, but take no precautions for themselves, which results in a second victim.

“Mena was looking a little paler than usual this morning; naturally, I am mildly worried about her, but I need to focus on figuring out who the vampire is going to target next.”

Well, maybe no *exactly* like that, but close.

Mena, herself, isn’t much better. “Dear diary: I am having fearful nightmares, just like my friend Lucy had when she was being attacked by a vampire. Much weirdness. I’d better not tell anyone because I don’t want them to worry.”
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: cavalier973 on February 02, 2022, 11:29:45 PM
One interesting tidbit has a character stating that he used his “Kodak” to get some pictures of a house for a customer. I looked up “Kodak”, and saw that the company was started in 1892, while the novel was published in 1897.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: Pat on February 03, 2022, 02:07:38 AM
I found the epistolary structure of the novel interesting. It creates a certain distance between the reader and the characters.

Agree about the non-romantic nature of Dracula. The descriptions of him are often inhuman, and not in a positive sense. The part where he crawls down the wall sticks with me.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: cavalier973 on February 03, 2022, 07:41:57 AM
I found the epistolary structure of the novel interesting. It creates a certain distance between the reader and the characters.

Agree about the non-romantic nature of Dracula. The descriptions of him are often inhuman, and not in a positive sense. The part where he crawls down the wall sticks with me.

I agree about the form of the story. It adds a small mystery to the reader: who, exactly, is collecting these letters and memoranda?

Part of the frustration I have is that Stoker could have used an editor (or, a better one, if he already had an editor). I can imagine the different ways that the story could have gone. I am not from that era, and I guess what Stoker’s contemporary readers would have found compelling I find contrived. The example of any threat of conflict within the anti-Dracula league to be immediately resolved within the same conversation. I would have had John Seward try to commit Van Helsing to his asylum, for example. Van Helsing’s actions and explanations, no matter how weird and unsatisfying are accepted almost without challenge. His, “I would DIE for Riley!” seems to shut down any arguments, every time. The part about Lucy’s mother undoing the work he did to protect the girl was good, but it should have made him even more cautious with the others. “We need to all wear a garlic necklace when we go to bed, even the men, as a precaution.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: HappyDaze on February 03, 2022, 07:52:39 AM
SPOILERS




One of my frustrations with the story is how little insight the characters have, even the vaunted Prof. Van Helsing. They (eventually) know that they are dealing with a vampire, and have lost one companion to him already, but take no precautions for themselves, which results in a second victim.

“Mena was looking a little paler than usual this morning; naturally, I am mildly worried about her, but I need to focus on figuring out who the vampire is going to target next.”

Well, maybe no *exactly* like that, but close.

Mena, herself, isn’t much better. “Dear diary: I am having fearful nightmares, just like my friend Lucy had when she was being attacked by a vampire. Much weirdness. I’d better not tell anyone because I don’t want them to worry.”
How long is the spoiler window going to be for this?
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: Godfather Punk on February 03, 2022, 08:08:23 AM
I had watched the Lugosi flick years ago, and don’t really remember it, to compare. It seems that they merged a couple of characters for the movie. I have heard that the Mexican version (filmed in the same studio at the same time as Lugosi’s version, only at night) is superior to the American version. I haven’t seen the more recent movie versions. I understand that the newer versions are heavy on the sexual themes visuals, but these elements seem absent from the novel, though there are sections containing mild sensuality.
There was a Youtube video comparing all versions of Dracula movies and tv series to the Bram Stoker novel (Both Nosferatu movies, Bella Lugosi, Christopher Lee, Frank Langela, Gary Oldman, maybe even Leslie Nielsen... Mexican and Turkish versions...). The most faithful was the FF Coppola version with Gary Oldman; not saying it was the best movie, but it got the most story beats right. (Edit: nope! The BBC series took first place, but FFC was the runner up).

Edit: goddit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9D74m628gQ
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: cavalier973 on February 03, 2022, 08:39:25 AM
SPOILERS




One of my frustrations with the story is how little insight the characters have, even the vaunted Prof. Van Helsing. They (eventually) know that they are dealing with a vampire, and have lost one companion to him already, but take no precautions for themselves, which results in a second victim.

“Mena was looking a little paler than usual this morning; naturally, I am mildly worried about her, but I need to focus on figuring out who the vampire is going to target next.”

Well, maybe no *exactly* like that, but close.

Mena, herself, isn’t much better. “Dear diary: I am having fearful nightmares, just like my friend Lucy had when she was being attacked by a vampire. Much weirdness. I’d better not tell anyone because I don’t want them to worry.”
How long is the spoiler window going to be for this?

The rest of the thread may contain spoilers.

What I actually did was listen to the unabridged audiobook on YouTube. Stephen Red Fox Garnett. He has several book on his channel. He did a good job, but I think his interpretation of the dialogue colored my perception of the story.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: BoxCrayonTales on February 03, 2022, 09:25:46 AM
You might be interested in reading The Dracula Tapes by Fred Saberhagen. It recounts the events from Dracula’s perspective.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: cavalier973 on February 03, 2022, 11:29:33 AM
You might be interested in reading The Dracula Tapes by Fred Saberhagen. It recounts the events from Dracula’s perspective.

That does sound interesting. The anti-Count group became annoying enough to me that I was almost rooting for Dracula to win.

Dracula’s problem was that he picked the wrong girls to mess with. Had he gone for some lower-class women, he could probably have lived comfortably for some years.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: cavalier973 on February 03, 2022, 01:01:42 PM
I had watched the Lugosi flick years ago, and don’t really remember it, to compare. It seems that they merged a couple of characters for the movie. I have heard that the Mexican version (filmed in the same studio at the same time as Lugosi’s version, only at night) is superior to the American version. I haven’t seen the more recent movie versions. I understand that the newer versions are heavy on the sexual themes visuals, but these elements seem absent from the novel, though there are sections containing mild sensuality.
There was a Youtube video comparing all versions of Dracula movies and tv series to the Bram Stoker novel (Both Nosferatu movies, Bella Lugosi, Christopher Lee, Frank Langela, Gary Oldman, maybe even Leslie Nielsen... Mexican and Turkish versions...). The most faithful was the FF Coppola version with Gary Oldman; not saying it was the best movie, but it got the most story beats right.

Edit: goddit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9D74m628gQ

Hey!

It’s the Angry Video Game Nerd!
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: Stephen Tannhauser on February 03, 2022, 03:35:37 PM
What I always found most interesting about Dracula as a novel was the fact that it plays out, in practice, almost like a technothriller or a science fiction story, in that it's about the clash of two very different worlds and ways of thinking, and the ways in which the modern characters have to think of how to use the newest technologies and innovations they can find in order to counter the mysterious, overwhelming power of this outside intrusive force.

It's also, in a way, about rediscovering the virtues of that previous way of thinking as well: 1890s England thought of itself as very civilized and sophisticated, and had a very large streak of condescension and ironic flippancy about the old-fashioned courtly virtues of previous ages (Ivanhoe, which is basically the world's biggest take-the-mickey on mediaeval romance, was published in 1819). When the characters swear loyalty to each other and weep in distress and happiness the way old-fashioned knightly romantic heroes would, it's the positive dimension of the past breaking back into the present, as Dracula himself is the negative dimension.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: Omega on February 03, 2022, 06:46:14 PM
One interesting tidbit has a character stating that he used his “Kodak” to get some pictures of a house for a customer. I looked up “Kodak”, and saw that the company was started in 1892, while the novel was published in 1897.

You were probably reading one of the various 'modernized' versions. Or even a edited version.
This is something to keep en mind with say the english versions of 20000 Leagues. The translators/editirs for the book and I velieve Mysterious Island changed and added some things here and there. Theres a few online sites that enumerate the differences. Even more modern books like Harry Potter have been edited for US readers because they are apparently too stupid to understand some word differences or what a Philosophers Stone is.

Dracula the story comes across as scary or not depending on how inured to this stuff one is now. Modern readers expect gore and blood everywhere. This was even commented on in a vampire book from the 80s or 90s were someone in the story was complaining that biting the neck and sucking the blood in a movie wasnt how movie vampires are supposed to work. They are supposed to rip out the throat and blood gushing everywhere.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: cavalier973 on February 04, 2022, 07:13:55 PM
Folding pocket cameras had been invented by 1897, and so are not an anachronism, I’ve discovered.

https://www.liquisearch.com/eastman_kodak/history/timeline/1880_to_1900
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: Trond on February 04, 2022, 11:08:35 PM
I always meant to get to this novel, but it's never been at the top of my list. I did get through another "Gothic" novel a while ago: Phantom of the Opera. I wonder if they are comparable in style.

That's interesting info on the cameras.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: soundchaser on February 04, 2022, 11:42:15 PM
For late Victorian and early Edwardian culture the vampire was a sadistic sex fiend. Note that the neck of the lady was typically the only exposed skin in the era when feminine skin was to be covered. In some ways the monster is a metaphor for the subversive repression of eros that brewed below the surface and found release in murder, rape, and other violent mayhem against women (and men).
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: cavalier973 on February 05, 2022, 07:27:19 AM
For late Victorian and early Edwardian culture the vampire was a sadistic sex fiend. Note that the neck of the lady was typically the only exposed skin in the era when feminine skin was to be covered. In some ways the monster is a metaphor for the subversive repression of eros that brewed below the surface and found release in murder, rape, and other violent mayhem against women (and men).

At one point, Mina dips her bare feet in mud, in hopes that anyone who might glance at her wouldn’t realize her feet were nekkid.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: cavalier973 on February 05, 2022, 07:31:57 AM
As an aside, this game has gotten me to fire back up the old game “Baldur’s Gate”.

I remember playing “Baldur’s Gate 2” years ago and running up against a passel of vampires, and having a troublesome time with them, until eventually I had Anomen turn undead. I was expecting the vampires to run away, so that I could deal with them one by  one, but Anomen must’ve been fairly high level, because he was making them pop like soap bubbles.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: cavalier973 on February 05, 2022, 08:37:17 AM
Reading Dracula makes me want to kill vampires. Is the board game “Castle Ravenloft” any good?

Edit: what about the 1e adventure “Ravenloft”? Is it worthy?
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: cavalier973 on February 05, 2022, 08:43:08 AM
For late Victorian and early Edwardian culture the vampire was a sadistic sex fiend. Note that the neck of the lady was typically the only exposed skin in the era when feminine skin was to be covered. In some ways the monster is a metaphor for the subversive repression of eros that brewed below the surface and found release in murder, rape, and other violent mayhem against women (and men).

Are you suggesting that a Victorian era male would flip through “Dracula”, and then announce that he would be in his bunk?

As an aside, the book has one male vampire (Dracula, of course) one male who is possibly a vampire spawn, possibly just a crazy person, four genuine female vampires, and one female almost vampire. Neither of the women who were infected with Coronavamp 19 enjoyed the experience.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: soundchaser on February 05, 2022, 11:35:25 AM
For late Victorian and early Edwardian culture the vampire was a sadistic sex fiend. Note that the neck of the lady was typically the only exposed skin in the era when feminine skin was to be covered. In some ways the monster is a metaphor for the subversive repression of eros that brewed below the surface and found release in murder, rape, and other violent mayhem against women (and men).
Since I am not a male of the era, I have no idea. My point is that a predator that sinks the teeth into the delicate and exposed feminine neck region would be considered a monster of terrible proportions. The issue relates to ways our culture seems to train us to not see the theme in a manner that is sort of extreme in that way. Maybe not though?

Are you suggesting that a Victorian era male would flip through “Dracula”, and then announce that he would be in his bunk?

As an aside, the book has one male vampire (Dracula, of course) one male who is possibly a vampire spawn, possibly just a crazy person, four genuine female vampires, and one female almost vampire. Neither of the women who were infected with Coronavamp 19 enjoyed the experience.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: Omega on February 05, 2022, 07:57:04 PM
I always meant to get to this novel, but it's never been at the top of my list. I did get through another "Gothic" novel a while ago: Phantom of the Opera. I wonder if they are comparable in style.

That's interesting info on the cameras.

I've read both and past the narrative style. They are different in tone and progression. The phantom plays out like a sort of supervillain. Whereas Dracula plays out as a more straightup supernatural tale. In between is say a book like Frankenstein.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: Omega on February 05, 2022, 08:04:09 PM
Reading Dracula makes me want to kill vampires. Is the board game “Castle Ravenloft” any good?

Edit: what about the 1e adventure “Ravenloft”? Is it worthy?

The 1e module Ravenloft is pretty solid if fairly simple at its basics. Its driven mostly by the trip and atmosphere of the cursed land and the problem with Strahd.

The board game is an odd one. Its a co-op adventure against the game and has a sort of ongoing story you can advance through. It is nowhere near as involved as say Descent or especiallyt Mice & Mystics which has a pretty good story that unfolds across the 3 sets and spills over into the aerial wargame that came last. Same for Shadows of Brimstone which does really well as a co-op. Though expensive and some expansions are nigh impossible to get.

For me at least the board game feels a bit too simplistic. YMMV n that. Theres plenty of reviews and example pics and plsythrough vids over on BGG.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: mudbanks on February 19, 2022, 10:09:09 AM
The original story by Stoker was great. I didn't expect to like it as much as I did, finishing it in two to three sittings. I actually do like some of the expressions and figures of speech used by the characters; they were uncanny but I thought that lent the story more charm.

Come to think about it, this was the only novel by Stoker that I'd read. I should check out his other novels too. His short stories were pretty entertaining, but nowhere near as good as Dracula.

SPOILERS AHEAD
.
.
.
I'm disappointed there hasn't been a worthy Dracula series. I saw the Bela Lugosi one and hated it; it strayed too far from the source material, downplaying Lucy's death for instance. I had higher hopes for FFC's version, but the overtly portrayed romance between Dracula (who, besides being a supernatural psychopath, was also a hell of a strategist in the original book) and Mina Harker killed it for me. I haven't seen Christopher Lee's version but I probably should one day. Can't be bothered with the BBC version unless someone can convince me otherwise.

EDIT: Vampire fans should also check out Sheridan le Fanu's Carmilla. I loved it. Short but sweet. Not a fan of emo goth vampires (sparkle or no sparkle). Psychopathic, manipulative ones who induce nightmarish symptoms in their victims? Hell yeah sign me up!
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: Ruprecht on April 17, 2022, 07:07:05 PM
Even more modern books like Harry Potter have been edited for US readers because they are apparently too stupid to understand some word differences or what a Philosophers Stone is.
It was the American Publishers low expectation of American readers that caused that change, not the readers themselves.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: Omega on April 18, 2022, 06:57:25 AM
Even more modern books like Harry Potter have been edited for US readers because they are apparently too stupid to understand some word differences or what a Philosophers Stone is.
It was the American Publishers low expectation of American readers that caused that change, not the readers themselves.

Thats what I said.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: David Johansen on May 01, 2022, 09:03:23 PM
Stoker's novel is a good read but as others have noted it does suffer from some of the self indulgent wankery of Victorian fiction.  Not so badly as say, Alice In Wonderland but I'm pretty sure this is the dreadful type of thing Twain mocks with the school presentation in Tom Sawyer.  The Victorians loved their sentimentality it seems, even Dickens falls for it here and there even when he's tripping over his feet trying not to outright say "prostitute."
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: Battlemaster on June 13, 2022, 07:04:19 PM
Well, what made Dracula a figure of horror in ''Olde England'' was the fact he was a foreigner, an eastern European foreigner,  which automatically triggered a certain xenophobic reaction in ye olde English of the day.

The real horror was that he was an aristocrat who perpetuated himself literally sucking the  life out of people around him and turning them into his slaves, and in that time and place many saw that as essentially a real thing.

The story became legendary because it tapped into certain fears of the day it was written in.  It's evolved over time and the character has changed, becoming more of a tragic ir romantic figure to appeal to certain audiences,  but at first he was a figure of horror based on the fears of the day.

It's like why 'invasion of the body snatchers' and 'the blob' were so popular in the 50's,  they tapped the commie scare of the day.

Now that you've read Dracula, try Carmilla,  a contemporary vampire story that was even more salacious in it's time for it's lesbian theme.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: hedgehobbit on June 22, 2022, 06:55:32 PM
Reading Dracula makes me want to kill vampires. Is the board game “Castle Ravenloft” any good?

I've had fun with FFG's Fury of Dracula. It is based on the novel but is focused on the vampire hunters tracking Dracula. One player plays Dracula who moves around a map of Europe secretly, while the other players play Van Helsin, Harker, etc and try to find him. The game is fun and there is just enough chrome to evoke the feel but I wish there were more narrative games focused on Dracula.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: rgalex on July 01, 2022, 10:31:56 AM
If anyone is interested, there is a Dracula graphic novel up on IGG atm, written by a descendent of Stoker.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/clint-stoker-s-dracula/x/18550526#/

It's got 4 days left and he's calling it "an ode to the classic".

The Story: In modern America, new lawyer, Jon Harker celebrates his engagement when he is contacted by his soon-to-be brother-in-law, who has witnessed something truly horrific while working for Dracula’s empire. When Harker agrees to help, he is pulled into the strange and secretive world of the most powerful man nobody knows - Dracula.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: Battlemaster on July 01, 2022, 11:24:39 AM
A couple obscure movies to comment on.

''Dracula's widow'' was a halfway interesting flick.

If you watch 'Dracula's dog'' you deserve all the suffering you'll feel.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: KindaMeh on July 01, 2022, 11:09:11 PM
Is Dracula Daily potentially worth trying? Not like I use my more unprofessional email account for much, I guess...
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: Reckall on July 08, 2022, 08:42:36 PM
There is a very well done documentary about the "found footage" phenomenon in movies, and the epistolary style in "Dracula" is, interestingly, cited as a form of "found footage" in literature. I never thought about it in that way.

The surprising thing is that Dracula is considered "the father of modern vampire stories" when about 25 years earlier Sheridan Le Fanu published "Carmilla", a very powerful novella about a female vampire. And while Dracula can be considered as the "shadow" of Victorian moralism (he is, after all, a dude who ruins beautiful damsels by entering their room at night and sucking their necks...), Carmilla already went further by implying strong lesbian desires by the vampire for the protagonist. It is impossible not to see the influence that Le Fanu had on Stoker, and yet the former's work is almost forgotten.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: hedgehobbit on July 09, 2022, 11:00:27 AM
The surprising thing is that Dracula is considered "the father of modern vampire stories" when about 25 years earlier Sheridan Le Fanu published "Carmilla", a very powerful novella about a female vampire. And while Dracula can be considered as the "shadow" of Victorian moralism (he is, after all, a dude who ruins beautiful damsels by entering their room at night and sucking their necks...), Carmilla already went further by implying strong lesbian desires by the vampire for the protagonist. It is impossible not to see the influence that Le Fanu had on Stoker, and yet the former's work is almost forgotten.

Dracula is much longer and better written than Carmilla although Carmilla does stick with some of the older folklore about vampires such as them biting the chest instead of the neck and the vampire's coffin being buried underground (and the vampire's ability to walk through walls to get in and out of their coffins).

But I don't think it is controversial to say that Dracula's popularity is primarily based on the success of the movie adaptions. IMO, the choice of Dracula over Carmilla is primarily due to the fact that Dracula is a much better villain than Carmilla/Mircalla. Mainly because Dracula is a fully grown man, which is much more threatening than Carmilla who appears to be a teenage girl. This is amplified how Carmilla isn't a hideous monster but is said to remain beautiful even when they dig her up at the end of the story. She is quickly and coldly dispatched.

Now compare Carmilla's end with the staking of Lucy in Hammer's first Dracula movie ...



and it's easy to see why Dracula is a more palatable story.

I'm afraid that Carmilla is doomed by it's association as being a "lesbian vampire" story (although I think this aspect of the story is overblown). The only people wanting to make such a movie are either smut merchants or people trying to push an agenda. Neither is good for a large box office.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: Reckall on July 09, 2022, 01:41:09 PM
I'm afraid that Carmilla is doomed by it's association as being a "lesbian vampire" story (although I think this aspect of the story is overblown). The only people wanting to make such a movie are either smut merchants or people trying to push an agenda. Neither is good for a large box office.

I don't think that the lesbian theme in Carmilla is "overblown" in a bad sense. It is treated by Le Fanu in the best way: if you want to see it, the clues are there.

I agree that Dracula is more "cinematic" than Carmilla, with a bigger scope and stuff. Carmilla, however, inspired one of my favourite movies, The Moth Diaries (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65r1XALjxeQ) (yup, it is on YT). It was not a success but I'm amazed by how no one considered the meaning of the last scene (along with the very lyrics of the end titles song). No director lingers on a specific shot for a long stretch for no reason, and wondering what the meaning of that shot is should be required before passing judgement. Ironically, in a way the moviemakers respected the subtlety of the original text, thus dooming the movie to superficial interpretations.
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: Eirikrautha on July 09, 2022, 02:13:26 PM
The surprising thing is that Dracula is considered "the father of modern vampire stories" when about 25 years earlier Sheridan Le Fanu published "Carmilla", a very powerful novella about a female vampire. And while Dracula can be considered as the "shadow" of Victorian moralism (he is, after all, a dude who ruins beautiful damsels by entering their room at night and sucking their necks...), Carmilla already went further by implying strong lesbian desires by the vampire for the protagonist. It is impossible not to see the influence that Le Fanu had on Stoker, and yet the former's work is almost forgotten.

Dracula is much longer and better written than Carmilla although Carmilla does stick with some of the older folklore about vampires such as them biting the chest instead of the neck and the vampire's coffin being buried underground (and the vampire's ability to walk through walls to get in and out of their coffins).

But I don't think it is controversial to say that Dracula's popularity is primarily based on the success of the movie adaptions. IMO, the choice of Dracula over Carmilla is primarily due to the fact that Dracula is a much better villain than Carmilla/Mircalla. Mainly because Dracula is a fully grown man, which is much more threatening than Carmilla who appears to be a teenage girl. This is amplified how Carmilla isn't a hideous monster but is said to remain beautiful even when they dig her up at the end of the story. She is quickly and coldly dispatched.

Now compare Carmilla's end with the staking of Lucy in Hammer's first Dracula movie ...



and it's easy to see why Dracula is a more palatable story.

I'm afraid that Carmilla is doomed by it's association as being a "lesbian vampire" story (although I think this aspect of the story is overblown). The only people wanting to make such a movie are either smut merchants or people trying to push an agenda. Neither is good for a large box office.

Yup.  Dracula was popular in its day.  The Victorian audience, especially the female audience, was far more interested in the idea of a rakishly handsome man taking them against their will (thus providing an excuse as to why they did not protect their virtue) than a female vampiric relationship.  Then, as today, lesbians are an exceedingly small part of the population.  And they didn't have a mass media conglomeration intent on pushing unprofitable ideas simply for ideology's sake...
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: Adeptus on August 02, 2022, 10:56:07 AM
When reading "Dracula" today, we must remember that we perceive it very differently from readers who became acquainted with it shortly after its publication. And I don't mean changes in mores. For us it is obvious that Dracula=vampire. There is no surprise here. Meanwhile, at the time when Stoker wrote his book, the character of Dracula was not one of the pillars of horror, and tropes associated with vampires were not so widely known or "codified."
Title: Re: Just finished the novel “Dracula” by Stoker
Post by: hedgehobbit on August 09, 2022, 08:26:24 PM
Meanwhile, at the time when Stoker wrote his book, the character of Dracula was not one of the pillars of horror, and tropes associated with vampires were not so widely known or "codified."

Paul Barber, an anthropologist, wrote a book called Vampires, Burial, and Death about the history of vampires. He collaborated with folklorists and medical doctors. In the book, he catalogs several accounts of vampires; the earliest from 1592 with most from the 1700s. By the 1700s, vampires stories had spread around Europe and most of the accounts from that date were written by travelers going to the vampire's location to record the events. Because of some technical details, many of these accounts appear to be based on actual, first hand knowledge.

The traits of vampires that are known to be scientifically accurate are;

-Lying in their coffins with no smell and the body still flexible. The hair and nails have grown.
-Blood is dripping from their mouths and they seem plump and "healthy". Often looking better than when alive.
-When staked, they will scream and blood will splatter out of the body.

All of these things are based on the knowledge of how a human body can decompose in certain conditions. Gas builds up in the abdomen and when stakes, that gas is released causing a "screaming" noise and blood splatter. This decomposition is why staking and water are associated with vampire. If you drive a spike into a grave and pour water into the hole thus created, the water will accelerate the decomposition and "prevent" the body from turning into a vampire.

Other things common in these stories that match current day lore are:

-Victims of vampires will be healthy people that die suddenly, often within a day or so of sickness.
-These victims will, themselves, become vampire.

To destroy a vampire it isn't sufficient to simply stake it. In almost all cases, the body is dismembered and the parts are burned. This is the fate of Carmilla.

From this point, much of the history disagrees with modern lore. Firstly, vampires were more similar to ghosts, often visiting and talking to relatives in the night. In one case, the villagers dug up a vampire and put his body under guard yet the killings continued. Also, the biting of the neck was not present. Instead the vampire killed its victims mainly by strangling them in their sleep. It appears that the "blood sucking" was just metaphorical.

Another commonality was the original vampire became so often because he had been murdered or, worse, committed suicide. And you could also become a vampire if you eat the meat of an animal killed by a vampire.

It is an interesting book for anyone looking for ideas to put into a game though I will say that it is written in a academic tone that is often hard to get through.