This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
NOTICE: Some online security services are reporting that information for a limited number of users from this site is for sale on the "dark web." As of right now, there is no direct evidence of this, but change your password just to be safe.
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]

Author Topic: Is Woke media always dreary?  (Read 2635 times)

Ratman_tf

  • Alt-Reich Shitlord
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7231
Re: Is Woke media always dreary?
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2022, 05:43:22 PM »
Quote from: jhkim on January 26, 2022, 06:06:35 PM
Are we at least agreed that Fury Road is feminist? That seems like a no-brainer to me. There's the old women that hedgehobbit notes, and the plot of rescuing an enslaved harem from a crazed dictator.

I don't think Fury Road was particuarly pro or anti feminist. I think it was a lot of-



With a seasoning of modern politics movie tropes that one can ignore or point at as they see fit.

(I did find the concept in the movie of young men being used by society as disposable cannon fodder to be a pretty MRA stance. Though I doubt the writers thought of it that way, since Max was portrayed as a good guy due to his value to the women in the film.)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2022, 05:52:33 PM by Ratman_tf »
Logged
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

Pat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • P
  • Posts: 4997
  • Rats do 0 damage
Re: Is Woke media always dreary?
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2022, 06:12:37 PM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf on January 27, 2022, 05:37:57 PM
There's this bizzare "jockeying for position" moment in modern media where everyone starts picking a side when a movie comes out. Sometimes it's immediate like with Captain Marvel. I don't think Fury Road was intended as one thing or another. (Tough female character, damsels in distress, bad guys drinking milk forced out of women because post holocaust food supplies, Max helps women out because personal reasons) so people had to figure out which side of be on concerning whether the movie supported their particular -ism or not.
I think a lot of the Woke classification has nothing to do with the thing in question, and everything to do with the behavior of those involved. If you have a producer or an actor posting shit about the thing on Twitter that's so racist it would make a Klansman blush, it's probably going to be classified as Woke.
Logged

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9883
Re: Is Woke media always dreary?
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2022, 07:10:52 PM »
Quote from: S'mon on January 27, 2022, 04:35:42 PM
Quote from: jhkim on January 26, 2022, 06:06:35 PM
Saying "woke is about hate" seems close to making the original question tautological -- i.e. if it isn't dreary and hateful, then by definition, it isn't Woke.

Why do you think hate is necessarily dreary? I thought Captain Marvel was full of hate (which is not what 'hateful' means, BTW) but not dreary, or at least much less dreary than I expected. Black Widow had a lot less generalised hate, while I found it a lot drearier. I guess my expectations were higher, though.

Leaving aside Wokery, plenty of films are full of hate but not dreary. Braveheart has a huge hate-on for the English, it's pretty entertaining IMO. Conan the Barbarian hates on hippies and implies it's a short step from flower power to Manson Family; it's one of my favourite films.

OK, fair enough. I feel like the categories here are very subjective, but I guess that is inherent in the topic. As I said before, I thought of "woke" as something applied to stuff like touchy-feely snowflake participation prizes -- whereas you consider it to be specifically about hate.

Overall, I don't feel like I have a good grasp on what you consider to be woke. I mentioned Steven Universe before - that seems very woke to me, but not hate filled or dreary. On the other end, what do you think about black revenge films - like Django Unchained (2012) or the Birth of a Nation (2016)? Would you consider them to be woke and/or dreary?
Logged

Ratman_tf

  • Alt-Reich Shitlord
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7231
Re: Is Woke media always dreary?
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2022, 07:38:40 PM »
Quote from: Pat on January 27, 2022, 06:12:37 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on January 27, 2022, 05:37:57 PM
There's this bizzare "jockeying for position" moment in modern media where everyone starts picking a side when a movie comes out. Sometimes it's immediate like with Captain Marvel. I don't think Fury Road was intended as one thing or another. (Tough female character, damsels in distress, bad guys drinking milk forced out of women because post holocaust food supplies, Max helps women out because personal reasons) so people had to figure out which side of be on concerning whether the movie supported their particular -ism or not.
I think a lot of the Woke classification has nothing to do with the thing in question, and everything to do with the behavior of those involved. If you have a producer or an actor posting shit about the thing on Twitter that's so racist it would make a Klansman blush, it's probably going to be classified as Woke.

I agree about the behavior, but I don't think it has nothing to do with the thing in question. There's the feminist trope in quite a few films where the woman is already extremely powerful, she's just held back by the oppressive mens in her life. Which isn't necessarily a bad story, except when the woman character is a bit (or a lot) of an asshole and is intended to be a hero.
Logged
The notion of an exclusionary and hostile RPG community is a fever dream of zealots who view all social dynamics through a narrow keyhole of structural oppression.
-Haffrung

RandyB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • R
  • Posts: 1173
Re: Is Woke media always dreary?
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2022, 08:55:36 PM »
Quote from: Ratman_tf on January 27, 2022, 07:38:40 PM
Quote from: Pat on January 27, 2022, 06:12:37 PM
Quote from: Ratman_tf on January 27, 2022, 05:37:57 PM
There's this bizzare "jockeying for position" moment in modern media where everyone starts picking a side when a movie comes out. Sometimes it's immediate like with Captain Marvel. I don't think Fury Road was intended as one thing or another. (Tough female character, damsels in distress, bad guys drinking milk forced out of women because post holocaust food supplies, Max helps women out because personal reasons) so people had to figure out which side of be on concerning whether the movie supported their particular -ism or not.
I think a lot of the Woke classification has nothing to do with the thing in question, and everything to do with the behavior of those involved. If you have a producer or an actor posting shit about the thing on Twitter that's so racist it would make a Klansman blush, it's probably going to be classified as Woke.

I agree about the behavior, but I don't think it has nothing to do with the thing in question. There's the feminist trope in quite a few films where the woman is already extremely powerful, she's just held back by the oppressive mens in her life. Which isn't necessarily a bad story, except when the woman character is a bit (or a lot) of an asshole and is intended to be a hero.

Yeah, but you can only remake "9-to-5" so many times before it gets stale.
Logged

S'mon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12283
Re: Is Woke media always dreary?
« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2022, 01:39:01 AM »
Quote from: jhkim on January 27, 2022, 07:10:52 PM
Overall, I don't feel like I have a good grasp on what you consider to be woke. I mentioned Steven Universe before - that seems very woke to me, but not hate filled or dreary. On the other end, what do you think about black revenge films - like Django Unchained (2012) or the Birth of a Nation (2016)? Would you consider them to be woke and/or dreary?

I've not watched any of these, my understanding is that the latter two are certainly Woke. I guess Steven Universe is woke at least somewhat. But not having seen these I'm just guessing from what I've read.

Edit: I may have seen a tiny bit of Steven Universe. I seem to recall it employed Marxist-Feminist dialectic, which would make it gender-Woke. But my memory is prettty dim. I tend to avoid 'race-hate porn' so I didn't watch Get Out, Django, Machete, etc etc. Not that I believe Tarantino is genuinely Woke, he just loves pornographic violence/gore/torture and Woke gives him a great excuse to indulge.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 05:03:40 AM by S'mon »
Logged

Stephen Tannhauser

  • Curmudgeonly Refugee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • S
  • Posts: 846
Re: Is Woke media always dreary?
« Reply #51 on: January 28, 2022, 01:42:15 AM »
Quote from: Pat on January 27, 2022, 06:12:37 PM
If you have a producer or an actor posting shit about the thing on Twitter that's so racist it would make a Klansman blush, it's probably going to be classified as Woke.

And the irony is that that usually worsens reactions, by priming people to look for messaging they might quite cheerfully not have noticed without it or even to infer a hostile message where it wasn't actually intended.

I personally think Captain Marvel would still have struck me as a poorly written film whatever its hype said, but Brie Larson's rather vocal pro-feminist promotion sent me into the theatre braced for sucker punches rather than relaxed and willing to cut it slack.
Logged
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

STR 8 DEX 10 CON 10 INT 11 WIS 6 CHA 3

GeekyBugle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4562
  • Now even more Toxic
Re: Is Woke media always dreary?
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2022, 12:28:35 PM »
Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on January 28, 2022, 01:42:15 AM
Quote from: Pat on January 27, 2022, 06:12:37 PM
If you have a producer or an actor posting shit about the thing on Twitter that's so racist it would make a Klansman blush, it's probably going to be classified as Woke.

And the irony is that that usually worsens reactions, by priming people to look for messaging they might quite cheerfully not have noticed without it or even to infer a hostile message where it wasn't actually intended.

I personally think Captain Marvel would still have struck me as a poorly written film whatever its hype said, but Brie Larson's rather vocal pro-feminist promotion sent me into the theatre braced for sucker punches rather than relaxed and willing to cut it slack.

While I didn't go to the theater, wouldn't even pirate it. The first because I won't give money to people that hate me and the latter because watching it isn't neccesary to understanding the Meh finalle of the MCU.
Logged
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]
« previous next »