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Author Topic: Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity  (Read 4094 times)

T-Willard

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2006, 09:42:17 am »
Quote from: Yamo
Have fun defending a (fellow?) racist and bigot.
Oh, yeah, he's the fucking bigot.

Grab that string dangling out of your mouth, and pull on it till your head pops out your ass, you fucking retard.

Read. Comprehend. Post.

I'll fucking say it.

Based on the evidence I saw after working in the Middle East for 5 years, your average Middle Eastern Muslim is a goddamn coward who runs in packs, couldn't give a shit less about freedom, and thinks all Westerners are out to rob him blind and destroy his culture.

Now, Mr. Oh So Fucking Enlightened, do you know why I formed this opinion?
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Anyone who thinks "MIDDLE EASTERN people don't give a fuck about freedom", or claims to know what "Middle Eastern people" think about anything, undoubtedly also has some facinating insights to share with us on the black man's relationship to fried chicken and watermelon.
Nice race ploy, cockmonkey. Got any other things out of the bleeding heart, Internet tough guy handbook?

How about yelling about my sexuality too?

Don't you have a fucking bridge to hide under, you leper cum drinking bathroom floor licking troll?

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I can't wait.
No shit. You couldn't wait to come in here, bouncing on your fucking Pogo Stick of Stupidity & Ignorance, to drop your Go-Bot Underoos, and shit all over the thread.

Did you even read the section of the 1st ID pamphlet he posted? Did you even read the bolded part, or would that have gotten in the way of your righteous indignation?

You're still a fucking tool, and all the claims of bigot and racist won't change that.

Unless your gonna compare my opinions of Middle Eastern Muslims to black people too.


As far as the 1st ID handbook section goes, try fucking reading it sometime, instead of making blithe assumptions about shit. And WHAT THE FUCK does your little link have to do with the goddamn handbook?

Funny thing is, maybe if more people in the Administration read that fucking handbook, they'd realize the whole fucking problem of introducing black propaganda, sweeping shit under the rug, and the other collosal fucking blunders they'd made.

Maybe you should fucking read it.
I am becoming more and more hollow, and am not sure how much of the man I was remains.

Werekoala

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2006, 10:59:22 am »
You just don't get this level of debate on RPG.net, that's for sure.

Lan Astaslem


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Spike

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2006, 11:39:50 am »
The only thing I take exception to in T-Willards post is the description of Arabs.

Are they cowards because they run in packs and ambush soldiers?

Of course not. They are cunning and ruthless.  How else are they going to fight a larger, more organized military with better gear?

To frame it another way: Are American Soldiers cowards because they wear body armor, ride in armored vehicles, and never go anywhere without at least a dozen buddies?

No, that's how you fight and survive in a warzone.


Asking the other side to play nice, be fair is blinkered foolishness.
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Werekoala

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2006, 12:43:56 pm »
I think all the problems we have with that entire region - well before Iraq - can be summed up in a single sentence.

We expect them to act/think/feel like we do.

Its a different culture, shaped over hundreds or thousands of years. It ain't gonna happen. Ever. No matter what.

The whole "they don't want freedom" argument is false, because their definition of "freedom" is different from ours. Hell, WE can't agree on "freedom" ourselves many times.
Lan Astaslem


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"They don't fucking think for even a second about what they're doing because they're blinded by their ideology....Idiots." -  Sacrosanct

Zalmoxis

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2006, 12:51:14 pm »
Quote from: Werekoala
I think all the problems we have with that entire region - well before Iraq - can be summed up in a single sentence.

We expect them to act/think/feel like we do.

Its a different culture, shaped over hundreds or thousands of years. It ain't gonna happen. Ever. No matter what.

The whole "they don't want freedom" argument is false, because their definition of "freedom" is different from ours. Hell, WE can't agree on "freedom" ourselves many times.


I think that's very accurate. The question then becomes, if those people wish us harm, and we can't change them to our point of view, what do we do with them?

RPGObjects_chuck

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2006, 01:06:07 pm »
Quote from: Werekoala
I think all the problems we have with that entire region - well before Iraq - can be summed up in a single sentence.

We expect them to act/think/feel like we do.

Its a different culture, shaped over hundreds or thousands of years. It ain't gonna happen. Ever. No matter what.

The whole "they don't want freedom" argument is false, because their definition of "freedom" is different from ours. Hell, WE can't agree on "freedom" ourselves many times.


Ok... I realize this is probably a lost cause... but here we go..

The whole "they don't give a fuck about freedom" thing was one line out a dozen or so posts in this thread, that folks seem to enjoy quoting out of context to bash me and/or my arguments over the head.

What I said was that we FREED them and expected them to love us. They are already free, clearly they care about freedom and wish to be free.

I THEN SAID that "they don't give a fuck about that" in a larger context of- yes they're free, that doesn't mean we're best friends forever or that they want us to occupy their country forever.

Honestly, what I meant to say is just about identical to what werekoala just said. We expect them to act and think and feel like us, and they won't.

Chuck

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2006, 01:24:19 pm »
Quote from: RPGObjects_chuck
So we should stay for several centuries in Iraq until the Iraqi Ghandi finally boots us the hell out?
He might have a cool curved sword, even if he doesn't believe in using it.
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Spike

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2006, 01:26:38 pm »
They are human, if you prick them do they not bleed?

We are fully capable of understanding them and their culture, as they are of understanding us and our culture.  While Americans worship on the alter of Democracy and pray to the God Freedom, this does not necessarily hold true of all men.  This does not mean that we cannot understand each other at all.

What do you do with a nation that does not care about freedom? Nothing at all. It isn't your place to tell them how to live. In fact, that runs in direct contravention of your Faith. Not that it has ever stopped anyone in the past.
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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2006, 01:27:57 pm »
Go-Bot Underoos is genius.
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Zalmoxis

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2006, 01:35:51 pm »
Quote from: Spike
It isn't your place to tell them how to live.


What if they are inflicting harm upon us? We just sit back and take it?

RPGObjects_chuck

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2006, 01:42:55 pm »
Quote from: Zalmoxis
What if they are inflicting harm upon us? We just sit back and take it?


I think if we left Iraq, all the folks in Iraq would stop killing us.

The central dilemma we are now playing out is this: for 100 years or so, terrorism was treated as a law-enforcement problem. You follow leads, sometimes trying to prevent a crime before it happens, but mostly chasing the perps after the deed is done.

After 9-11 we decided we were going to treat terrorism like a military problem, basically the way no country in the world, with the exceptions of Israel and Great Britain, has ever treated terrorism.

And it doesn't seem to be working out too well for us. But lots of folks could have told us that (and they tried) because we can look at what it's gotten Israel and Great Britain, which was more terrorism.

Akrasia

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2006, 01:50:25 pm »
Quote from: RPGObjects_chuck
... But lots of folks could have told us that (and they tried) because we can look at what it's gotten Israel and Great Britain, which was more terrorism.


Britain?  :confused:

Are you aware of the Good Friday Agreement and the Belfast Agreement?  And the fact that the IRA has renounced terrorism and has decommissioned its arms?

And that all parties in Northern Ireland now agree that the political future of the province should be determined through peaceful democratic procedures?

It seemed to work out well for Britain in the end.

I'm not sure what alternative strategy the British should have pursued.  Giving in to the IRA demands?
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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #72 on: December 07, 2006, 01:56:34 pm »
Quote from: Werekoala
...
Its a different culture, shaped over hundreds or thousands of years. It ain't gonna happen. Ever. No matter what.
 ...


This is fallacious reasoning.

India, Japan, and (South) Korea were all cultures radically different from the West.  

[If anything, they were more different from us than the Middle-East.  At least with the Middle-east, we share similar religions (the monotheistic faiths all have the same historical roots), and centuries of interaction (not always violent).  Western philosophy was heavily influenced by Arab philosophers during the Middle Ages, and vice versa.]

Yet, despite having radically different cultures from the West, India, Japan, and South Korea are all now functioning democracies in which people enjoy individual rights and liberties.

Why rule out similar transformations elsewhere?

Cultures aren't static.  They can -- and do -- change.
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Werekoala

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #73 on: December 07, 2006, 01:57:55 pm »
Quote from: Akrasia
Britain?  :confused:

Are you aware of the Good Friday Agreement and the Belfast Agreement?  And the fact that the IRA has renounced terrorism and has decommissioned its arms?

And that all parties in Northern Ireland now agree that the political future of the province should be determined through peaceful democratic procedures?

It seemed to work out well for Britain in the end.

I'm not sure what alternative strategy the British should have pursued.  Giving in to the IRA demands?


That's because, despite all their differences, the two sides in the conflict were products of Western post-enlightenment civilization. They had common ground, no matter how much they thumped their chests or how many carbombs they set off. As such, they could come to a settlement, becuase they could UNDERSTAND each other.

I doubt we'll ever have such a rosy outcome in any dealings between the West and Islamic cultures - they're just TOO different, fundamentally. I'll go out on a limb and say we'll face similar problems with China in the not-to-distant future.
Lan Astaslem


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"They don't fucking think for even a second about what they're doing because they're blinded by their ideology....Idiots." -  Sacrosanct

Spike

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #74 on: December 07, 2006, 02:01:28 pm »
Quote from: Zalmoxis
What if they are inflicting harm upon us? We just sit back and take it?



That is hardly implicit in not telling people how to live.  

Seriously.  


My opinion should be obviously clear. If someone attacks you, you stop them, by whatever means necessary. Survival... war, is brutal, ugly and painful. It should be.  If you can not just stop them from attacking you, you destroy them utterly, root and branch.  

Telling them how to live has nothing to do with it.
For you the day you found a minor error in a Post by Spike and forced him to admit it, it was the greatest day of your internet life.  For me it was... Tuesday.

For the curious: Apparently, in person, I sound exactly like the Youtube Character The Nostalgia Critic.   I have no words.

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