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Author Topic: Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity  (Read 27246 times)

Dr Rotwang!

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #105 on: December 07, 2006, 04:24:15 PM »
See, Iraqi Ghandi is a pacifist through and through.  He's got a sword, sure, but it's more a symbol than anything: "I got a sword, I could use it, but I won't, because no."  And he hangs out with a djinni, see, who granted his wish: the means to bring peace.  But the djinni keeps trying to mess with him, tries to tempt him to flip out and kill like a madman, but Iraqi Ghandi's all, like, "No, Djinni, shut up."  But sometimes he wonders if the whole peace thing is really gonna work out, and he thinks-- what if the djinni's right?

...

...This is a goldmine.
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Zalmoxis

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #106 on: December 07, 2006, 04:27:56 PM »
Quote from: RPGObjects_chuck
I certainly dont think our activities in Iraq have altered that situation FOR THE BETTER anyway.


No, they have not, and that's regrettable.

RPGObjects_chuck

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #107 on: December 07, 2006, 04:40:52 PM »
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!
See, Iraqi Ghandi is a pacifist through and through.  He's got a sword, sure, but it's more a symbol than anything: "I got a sword, I could use it, but I won't, because no."  And he hangs out with a djinni, see, who granted his wish: the means to bring peace.  But the djinni keeps trying to mess with him, tries to tempt him to flip out and kill like a madman, but Iraqi Ghandi's all, like, "No, Djinni, shut up."  But sometimes he wonders if the whole peace thing is really gonna work out, and he thinks-- what if the djinni's right?

...

...This is a goldmine.


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Spike

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #108 on: December 07, 2006, 04:58:59 PM »
Akrasia: You and I seem to have gotten caught up in the sheer volume of words we were tossing at each other, and missed the other's points. I think we've gotten more on track since then, which is cool, since you seem to be a reasonably smart poster, even if we disagree on some things.

I will say that I don't buy democracy as providing greater freedoms than any other reasonable form of government, you just exchange the oppressor from 'that guy' to 'those guys'. Call it the nature of the beast.  An absolutely egalitarian democracy, which is what you seem to think of as 'Democracy' is even newer and rarer than democracy as a whole, and while certainly more FAIR than other forms of government, still often enacts laws based off the loudest shouting rather than 'what everyone wants'.  


Zalmoxis:  I never claimed to be compassionate. I could claim to be practical, but that doesn't address your point. Survival is ugly sometimes. The compassionate thing is not always the right choice.  Punative, I take exception to. If you were to break into my house, I would use force to chase you out, possibly deadly force if necessary. That is survival. Punative is chasing you down and continuing to apply force once you've run off. I didn't advocate that.  There is merits to punative force, just as there are downsides.  

So. I'll leave compassion to the martyrs and saints.
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Akrasia

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #109 on: December 07, 2006, 05:14:40 PM »
Quote from: Spike
I will say that I don't buy democracy as providing greater freedoms than any other reasonable form of government, you just exchange the oppressor from 'that guy' to 'those guys'.


Well by 'democracy' I mean 'liberal democracy', that is, a system of government that combines rule by the majority with protection of individual rights and liberties.  Without the latter, democracy can indeed be oppressive ('tyranny of the majority').  I should have been more precise on this point.
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Spike

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #110 on: December 07, 2006, 05:20:59 PM »
Quote from: Akrasia
Well by 'democracy' I mean 'liberal democracy', that is, a system of government that combines rule by the majority with protection of individual rights and liberties.  Without the latter, democracy can indeed be oppressive ('tyranny of the majority').  I should have been more precise on this point.



Even a liberal democracy, even with protections. But yes, given the long mottled history of democracies with equal protection laws I think a more clear statement of your point was certainly warranted. Just like I should clarify that my intent is not to praise tyranny, but to simply suggest that democracy is not the end all be all of governance, simply one alternative among many.

Tyrannies serve only the tyrant, and even that not well as most tyrants come to bad ends.
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fonkaygarry

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #111 on: December 07, 2006, 05:24:51 PM »
Quote from: Dr Rotwang!
See, Iraqi Ghandi is a pacifist through and through.  He's got a sword, sure, but it's more a symbol than anything: "I got a sword, I could use it, but I won't, because no."  And he hangs out with a djinni, see, who granted his wish: the means to bring peace.  But the djinni keeps trying to mess with him, tries to tempt him to flip out and kill like a madman, but Iraqi Ghandi's all, like, "No, Djinni, shut up."  But sometimes he wonders if the whole peace thing is really gonna work out, and he thinks-- what if the djinni's right?

...

...This is a goldmine.

I smell musical!
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Yamo

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #112 on: December 07, 2006, 09:48:22 PM »
Quote from: T-Willard
Based on the evidence I saw after working in the Middle East for 5 years, your average Middle Eastern Muslim is a goddamn coward who runs in packs, couldn't give a shit less about freedom, and thinks all Westerners are out to rob him blind and destroy his culture.


I almost feel bad here. A guy should have to do more to win an argument with you than just sit back and let you talk.
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Dominus Nox
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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #113 on: December 08, 2006, 12:00:27 AM »
Quote from: Yamo
Have fun defending a (fellow?) racist and bigot.

Anyone who thinks "MIDDLE EASTERN people don't give a fuck about freedom", or claims to know what "Middle Eastern people" think about anything, undoubtedly also has some facinating insights to share with us on the black man's relationship to fried chicken and watermelon.

I can't wait.


True to form, the politically correct, kool aid drinking pod person refers to someone who disagrees with him as a "racist" and a "bigot".

YAWN


Don't you people ever get tired of just chanting the same words over and over again anytime anyone disagrees with you on any issue? You know, if you keep calling people "Racists" and "Bigots" often enough, some of them might decide they might as well be what you're constanly accusing them of.

Now, since you're going to accuse me of being a "Racist!" and a "bigot" for disagreeing with you, excuse me while I go to KKK.com and order a white robe and hood.
RPGPundit is a fucking fascist asshole and a hypocritial megadouche.

Warthur

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #114 on: December 08, 2006, 12:01:53 AM »
Quote from: Akrasia
And for the record, the British never changed their 'military strategy' for dealing with terrorism.  Rather, both the British and Irish governments put pressure on the sectarian groups in Northern Ireland to find a peaceful solution to the Troubles.  They predicted that, should such a solution be put on the table, that there would be huge domestic support for it in Northern Ireland, which would further undercut support for sectarian paramilitary groups.  And they were right.

Yes, comparing Britain in Northern Ireland to the Israel/Palestine situation is ludicrous, on several counts. In Northern Ireland, the military's role was mainly to back up the police. In Palestine, the Israeli military conducts freaking air raids on a sadly regular basis. (And the violence directed at Israel from Palestine absolutely eclipses the best efforts of the IRA at their peak.)

That's what made a negotiated solution a viable option in NI - while blood had been shed on both sides, the amount of blood shed was not quite so much that peace was unthinkable. The deal's been sealed by the excellent economic growth NI has experienced since the Good Friday Agreement - peace has brought prosperity, and so the peace more-or-less holds because while nobody is 100% happy with the current solution, nobody except a few kooks want to backslide to the bad old days.

In Israel and Palestine, both sides need to be willing to set past bloodshed aside, and Israel needs to be willing to let Palestine sort its economy out and begin to become prosperous (or at least not locked in crippling poverty). I'm not seeing either at the moment.
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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #115 on: December 08, 2006, 12:02:42 AM »
Quote from: Zalmoxis
Actually black men love fried chicken and watermelon because they taste good. I have that on good authority. I suppose Middle Eastern people don't give a fuck about freedom because they live in a backward, oppressive culture where the only things they have that give them any hope are centuries-old tribal customs and religious laws.


At last, someone else around here understands the real situation.

Welcome to the club, brother.
RPGPundit is a fucking fascist asshole and a hypocritial megadouche.

Yamo

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #116 on: December 08, 2006, 12:08:48 AM »
Quote from: Dominus Nox
True to form, the politically correct, kool aid drinking pod person refers to someone who disagrees with him as a "racist" and a "bigot".

YAWN


Don't you people ever get tired of just chanting the same words over and over again anytime anyone disagrees with you on any issue? You know, if you keep calling people "Racists" and "Bigots" often enough, some of them might decide they might as well be what you're constanly accusing them of.

Now, since you're going to accuse me of being a "Racist!" and a "bigot" for disagreeing with you, excuse me while I go to KKK.com and order a white robe and hood.

It says a lot that you replied when I wasn't even addressing you.

Your sig says even more.
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J Arcane

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #117 on: December 08, 2006, 12:19:22 AM »
Quote from: Yamo
It says a lot that replied when I wasn't even addressing you.

Your sig says even more.
I thought the funniest part was when he referred to you of all people as "politically correct".  

That's pure comedy gold right there.
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Yamo

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #118 on: December 08, 2006, 12:35:58 AM »
Quote from: J Arcane
I thought the funniest part was when he referred to you of all people as "politically correct".  

That's pure comedy gold right there.


It's a cold day in hell that I'm even factually correct. :)

Now back to draining this bottle of limoncello I bought on a whim on the way home from work today...

Damn you, DeVito!
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RPGObjects_chuck

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Iraq: We should close our hearts to pity
« Reply #119 on: December 08, 2006, 12:35:58 AM »
Quote from: Warthur
Yes, comparing Britain in Northern Ireland to the Israel/Palestine situation is ludicrous, on several counts.


What the fuck is it with me and this thread, and everyone reading a shitload of stuff into my comments that isnt there.

I didnt fucking "compare" Palestine and Northern Fucking Ireland.

What I fucking said was that Britain, Israel and the United States had tried to solve terrorism militarily in the past.

That's it.