Quote from: Balbinus;238857I am a member.

I don't post there anymore because they don't discuss anything much that interests me (and because the relentless positivity makes me want to kill people, if I see another post about bringing teh awesome there will be blood and not cinematically, fatuous content-free crap, but I digress), but I occasionally stop by to see if anything interesting to me is happening and occasionally log in and there are no dark secret discussions.

Edit:  To be clear, I actually think it's a very cool place and a nice forum, it's just a cool place and a nice forum that mostly chats about stuff I have no real interest in.  Andy is a great guy, I have huge time for him.

If there really wasn't anything in those secret forums that goes on that is different than in those public forums, then they'd be wise to make those secret forums public. Otherwise, I must continue to assume that there's stuff there that they don't want the public to see.

And for the record, we're not talking about a Hidden "Admin" Forum for moderators only or something like that, we're talking about forums for all registered members that non-registered readers can't access.

RPGPundit

Quote from: gleichman;238858What could they say behind our back anyway that hasn't been said to our face. They are clear in their distain.

AH, but how many storygamers have you seen come on here or other forums and with a straight face tried to pretend that they love regular RPGs and have never ever said anything bad about D&D or regular gamers?
It happens all the time.

RPGPundit

Method for examining super-secret categories at Story Games:

1. Open Hotmail account under assumed name.
2. Apply for SG membership.
3. Read categories at leisure.

Quote from: RPGPundit;238945If there really wasn't anything in those secret forums that goes on that is different than in those public forums, then they'd be wise to make those secret forums public. Otherwise, I must continue to assume that there's stuff there that they don't want the public to see.

And for the record, we're not talking about a Hidden "Admin" Forum for moderators only or something like that, we're talking about forums for all registered members that non-registered readers can't access.

RPGPundit

So, register. I still do not see your point. The "secret" forums are not "secret", they are hidden, like an admin forum on any number of forums out there. For that matter, if you do not like that comparison, I have a number of play test forum on my site that are hidden and even one design forum (of which you would be a member) that are hidden. Is it because I am secretly plotting? No, it is because I find design discussion tedious to read when I am not involved. I do it because I want to keep the number of subforums down in number. Precisely why it is so on SG would only be answered by Andy. I imagine it is far less nefarious than you might think.

Bill

You have to be invited Bill or do what droog suggest. Anyone thinking they are going to find the secret cabal whose intention is to destroy gaming as we know it is in for some serious emodisapointment.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David R;238959You have to be invited Bill or do what droog suggest. Anyone thinking they are going to find the secret cabal whose intention is to destroy gaming as we know it is in for some serious emodisapointment.

Regards,
David R

I was not invited but I did have to wait for approval after I registered. So, yeah, I imagine it is to keep the riff-raff out.

Bill

Quote from: gleichman;238905Thank you for being so upset about a turn of phase understood by others.

Well, in that case, your campaign is all about raping kittens and your participation in it proves you're a kitten raper.

Everyone understands exactly what I mean by that.

And therefore I am completely justified in saying it, although I know nothing about your campaign or even if you have one or have ever had one.

Right?

QuoteI don't think I can phrase it better.

You don't think you can phrase it better than saying someone who thinks an RPG has taught them something has experienced "nothing but harm", yet cannot identify even the tiniest sliver of harm.

And you protest when I say that your claim has been completely demolished. Hm.

Quote from: James J Skach;238888Or he'll really get upset...

I am not upset except at the personal attack bit, saying that I'm running an emotionally damaging campaign, the night after there was a fight with a bunch of drow clerics and rangers.

I'm disappointed to find that gleichman's apology was one of those weak-ass pathetic "sorry you misunderstood" apologies instead of a real apology, but it's all that I can expect, I suppose.

Well, to be honest, I took it as "Which will I learn more from A, or JDCorely's game if he were to run a game that blows in these ways that I think blow."

Whereas you're saying "you campaign is about raping kittens...."

Now, I'm not saying that the underlying argument is correct, just that I could see where Mr. Gleichman is being honest in saying that it was a poor turn of phrase.

I also don't think "I'm sorry for the confusion" = "I'm sorry you misunderstood" - particularly in the context of admitting it was his "poorly chosen figure of speech."

Having said all that, I can understand the confusion (I agree it was a bad choice of phrasing) and your resulting ire given what you thought he was saying.

Quote from: James J Skach;238970Now, I'm not saying that the underlying argument is correct, just that I could see where Mr. Gleichman is being honest in saying that it was a poor turn of phrase.

Now don't going ruining the mood James, it's no doubt made his day to feel insulted and it would be heartless of you to take that away.

Hmm, that is fair, I suppose that this:

Quote from: gleichman;238905Thank you for being so upset about a turn of phase understood by others.

doesn't QUITE take back the previous apology, which I accepted sincerely. It's my mistake, I should have let it lay.

Quote from: JDCorley;238980doesn't QUITE take back the previous apology, which I accepted sincerely. It's my mistake, I should have let it lay.

In the interest of free exchange of information, responding to an apology with "Thank you for apologizing for your unfounded and ignorant attack" is effectively the same as spitting in someone's face.

I hope if you attempt to sincerely accept one in the future, say from someone else- you'll know to do so with more grace.

Quote from: Balbinus;238579Could they not be already sufficiently deluded, to use a harsh word, that harm is not really a viable outcome?

Put another way, if I think I'll understand what the Holocaust was like from playing We all had Names, playing the game probably isn't going to do me any harm that hasn't already been done long time back.

That's a fair point. But on the other hand, why encourage ignorance? By "ignorance" I mean not simply "not educated" about something, but... well... ignoring stuff. Why encourage that kind of willful stupidity? When you get the incompetent guy who thinks he's competent, why encourage him to continue thinking that way?

Quote from: BalbinusAlso, to take a less controversial example, surely one might learn some history from a Gurps historical supplement?  You can't learn what it was to be those people, but if you knew nothing about them you can't avoid learning something surely?

As I said, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. If you know that you only know a little bit, that's alright. But these things are being presented as those they're complete. It's like when Clive Owen's King Arthur began as "this is totally true and historical and stuff". If you watch it as a good old adventure movie, it's great fun. If you think it's a documentary, then there's some trouble there.

Now, I think that very few really believed the advertising hype about that movie, but as I said rpgs are a different thing. Because we imagine that the greatest knowledge comes from experience, and because we confuse roleplaying something with experiencing it, there are going to be a few pretentious dickheads who say, "now I really understand what it was like, man." For example,

Quote from: Jason MorningstarIn my experience, Americans come away from the game with their eyes opened to what happened in Poland in 1943-45. Most Europeans apparently learn this in school.

And they will go forth and multiply their stupidity, their extraordinarily imperfect knowledge, on places like wikipedia.

That's the basic problem with rpgs as education. They're an extraordinarily imperfect tool for it, so that the resulting education will also be very imperfect.

Quote from: Abyssal Maw;238732Have you guys seen the actual example of play on Youtube? It's kind of hilarious. And I don't just mean that in a "haw haw look at those guys", kind of way.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlLLqdXW3ok

"Steve, I'm gonna start you up here, in the nervous breakdown corner, and I'm gonna be down here, close to the intersection of enthusiasm and hate."

That's like a little picture of this thread.

That youtube made me wonder once again why is it so many roleplayers are runty or pudgy, and why so many have a slight speech impediment? Aren't there any buff, well-spoken gamers?

Quote from: HaffrungLook, amateurs usually fail to produce worthwhile art or insight.

Collaborations rarely generatate high quality content either.

Improvisation almost never does.

Combine the three and the odds of producing a serious, insightful, and artistic RPG session are infintismally small.

Now consider that the more serious the issue, the higher the bar for is for a treatment that isn't superficial or exploitive, and the more foolish and pretentious a superficial treatment becomes.

Haffrung sums it up perfectly.

Quote from: RPGPundit;238813I very much doubt that the Storygamers are secretly teaching an ancient system of esoteric philosophy.

I suspect that the Freemasons' secret rituals are... storygames!

It all makes sense now. Everything is connected!