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Author Topic: What's So Bad About The Forge?  (Read 2561 times)

Mike S.

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What's So Bad About The Forge?
« Reply #60 on: March 31, 2008, 02:35:51 pm »
Quote from: Jackalope
If you were evasive and obstinate in your refusual to examine what you get from the game, and what your goals and desires as a player are, and you were also a problematic player, then yeah, I'd probably kick you out.


And this, ladies and gentleman is why I will never let someone who follows Forge Theory game in my group (and why I kicked a Forge Theory Follower out of a game group I ran).

Abyssal Maw

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What's So Bad About The Forge?
« Reply #61 on: March 31, 2008, 02:52:05 pm »
It's not the forge, it's the forgies.

The games themselves are really not problematic, although some of them suck. If you want to pay $20 for a pamphlet, some cardboard cutouts and a plastic bug, that's your business. I have my own nonsense that I like, so that's fine.  

It's the people.

The problem is that you have a group of ordinary, mundane people who are trying to convince the world (and each other) that they are actually smart, vibrant, interesting people, and that they deserve money and respect from their crackpot ideas and gaming failures. The way they all periodically (and obsessively) validate each other in a frantic podcast and link fest is sort of like a little glimpse into the insecurity hatch.
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Settembrini

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What's So Bad About The Forge?
« Reply #62 on: March 31, 2008, 03:11:37 pm »
From my own in-depht journalistic hard-core investigation (no kidding! I dug deep and went to quite some lengths tio get a picture), I present you the whole story of what´s utterly wrong with the Forge as short as I can:

They either don´t have played or suck at Roleplaying Games. Both lead to most of them not getting RPGs as phenomenon, and pastime. Thusly, they created their own hobby. For that, they invented an Überbau to validate their taste. This Überbau is built upon their bad gaming experiences. They tried to explain their dissatisfaction by blaming the games, and those who were getting them and having fun with them.
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joewolz

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What's So Bad About The Forge?
« Reply #63 on: March 31, 2008, 06:16:05 pm »
I agree with you Sett.
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Kyle Aaron

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What's So Bad About The Forge?
« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2008, 06:26:59 pm »
Quote from: Mike S.
And this, ladies and gentleman is why I will never let someone who follows Forge Theory game in my group (and why I kicked a Forge Theory Follower out of a game group I ran).
Are there really that many around?

Of all the gamers I meet, I'm lucky if one in ten even heard of all that nonsense - and it's only that high a ratio because so many of those I meet I first met online, if I were in some uni game club or something it'd be close to zero, I'm sure.

I only know of three Forger theory followers here in Melbourne.
  • One barely games and anyway lives on the other side of the city so it doesn't really matter to me or anyone else what his ideas about roleplaying are;
  • one tried to start a Sorcerer game but it fizzled out when after six weeks and as many meetups it hadn't got started yet because he fucked about too much yabbering about Premise and so on;
  • and one talks about how System Matters and he loves these games, but in the end he's played a dozen sessions of them and over 150 sessions of Hackmaster, so there you go.
Counting over my email list, there are 48 gamers on it. One of the above three isn't on my email list, so that gives us 3 out of 49, though really the third one only counts as half a Forge guy. So, 2.5 out of 49. Less than 5% - and like I said, it'd be way lower in uni groups.

All this Forger nonsense is just irrelevant to the hobby. It's about as relevant as the rpg I wrote :D
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Hackmastergeneral

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What's So Bad About The Forge?
« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2008, 06:51:50 pm »
Quote from: Kyle Aaron

  • and one talks about how System Matters and he loves these games, but in the end he's played a dozen sessions of them and over 150 sessions of Hackmaster, so there you go.


Holy shit, isn't that, like, the Anti-Forge?

Other than, you know, Forward to Adventure! ?
 

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What's So Bad About The Forge?
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2008, 07:36:37 pm »
I dunno, you'd have to ask them. But it certainly seems a bit of a clash to me.

He put the little skull stickers on his HM Shield and everything. Though very few were for the HM kills, and lots for the traps and self and party kills, it was a bit disappointing. The PCs were more of a danger to themselves than the HM was.
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What's So Bad About The Forge?
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2008, 08:39:46 pm »
Quote from: Hackmastergeneral
Holy shit, isn't that, like, the Anti-Forge?


I've seen some Forgies argue that Hackmaster is meant to be taken totally seriously (that is to say, that the parts that are corny jokes shouldn't be in there, and the stuff in the rules that are obviously jokes, the player vs. GM stuff, are not actually jokes at all), and that it is somehow the ultimate version of the "gamist" part of GNS.

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What's So Bad About The Forge?
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2008, 08:55:32 pm »
Quote from: Kyle Aaron
I dunno, you'd have to ask them. But it certainly seems a bit of a clash to me.

He put the little skull stickers on his HM Shield and everything. Though very few were for the HM kills, and lots for the traps and self and party kills, it was a bit disappointing. The PCs were more of a danger to themselves than the HM was.


Sweet fuck, thats my group to a T.  We are our own worst enemy.  "Team Paranoia" we call ourselves.  Yeah, we royally fuck things up in monumental fashion, like epic, and sometimes almost campaign-killing in ways.
 

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What's So Bad About The Forge?
« Reply #69 on: March 31, 2008, 08:58:00 pm »
Quote from: RPGPundit
I've seen some Forgies argue that Hackmaster is meant to be taken totally seriously (that is to say, that the parts that are corny jokes shouldn't be in there, and the stuff in the rules that are obviously jokes, the player vs. GM stuff, are not actually jokes at all), and that it is somehow the ultimate version of the "gamist" part of GNS.

RPGPundit


Thats...


I don't know what to say about that.  I can see what they are saying, in some ways - it IS a "gamist" game.  But still..."Square peg, meet round hole".
 

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What's So Bad About The Forge?
« Reply #70 on: March 31, 2008, 10:24:44 pm »
Quote from: Hackmastergeneral
Thats...


I don't know what to say about that.  I can see what they are saying, in some ways - it IS a "gamist" game.  But still..."Square peg, meet round hole".


Yeah, well, the other side of that is that they play it, some of them, to claim that they play Gamist games too, but they make damn sure not to actually enjoy it.  They play it with none of the D&D goodness and none of the humour, and just as a mindless exercise in player vs. GM confrontation; where the players try to use the rules and rules lawyering to "beat" the GM and the GM tries to use the rules to "beat" the players.

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What's So Bad About The Forge?
« Reply #71 on: April 01, 2008, 12:00:21 am »
Quote from: RPGPundit
Yeah, well, the other side of that is that they play it, some of them, to claim that they play Gamist games too, but they make damn sure not to actually enjoy it.  They play it with none of the D&D goodness and none of the humour, and just as a mindless exercise in player vs. GM confrontation; where the players try to use the rules and rules lawyering to "beat" the GM and the GM tries to use the rules to "beat" the players.

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Mike S.

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What's So Bad About The Forge?
« Reply #72 on: April 01, 2008, 12:47:02 am »
Quote from: Kyle Aaron
Are there really that many around?

Of all the gamers I meet, I'm lucky if one in ten even heard of all that nonsense - and it's only that high a ratio because so many of those I meet I first met online, if I were in some uni game club or something it'd be close to zero, I'm sure.


So far I have only had the pleasure (sic) to run into one and after he complained how my game didnt comply with GNS theory, I promptly kicked him out of the game (with the players encouragement).

No, there aren't many but they are around

Anthrobot

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What's So Bad About The Forge?
« Reply #73 on: April 04, 2008, 04:45:56 am »
Quote from: Jackalope

And the GNS theory and Big Model enabled me to begin having a real conversation with my players about what we actually wanted from the game, and made it painfully clear that one of the guys in our group was an asshole player.  Because we realized that I and one of my players are simulationists first and gamists second, another is a gamist only (and suddenly I was able to understand why he and I were always fighting about his unworkable character concepts -- he doesn't care if the character makes sense in terms of my campaign world, and only really cares about system exploration), and the third's enjoyment of the game was actually coming from breaking the social contract.  So now I refuse to play with him.  I'm much happier for it, and zilchplay occurs with far less frequency.


That you needed to wade through a lot of Ron crap to pigeonhole yourself and your fellow gamers with labels like gamist/ simulationist/ synecdocheist tells me that you are on the road away from reality. Try hard drugs, they're more enjoyable ( and less fucked up than RE's dubious essays;) )if you want to head away from factual reality .
Or you could try to find some websites that give information on gaming that is practical, clear, relevant to actual roleplaying and not abstract pseudointellectual masturbation like RE's drivel.
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