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Author Topic: I declare the swine wars to be over. We will now commence the Siege.  (Read 11846 times)

Temple

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I declare the swine wars to be over. We will now commence the Siege.
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2007, 03:35:54 PM »
Quote from: phasmaphobic
Seriously.  I never knew the Forge existed until I saw Pundit rant about it a year or so ago, and it eventually led to me buying several good indie RPGs.

Thanks, Pundit, keep up the good work!  Your "war" is very effective, oh yes.


Conversely, Id never heard of the Pundit until a friend of mine did an interview with him for a norwegian rpg ezine.
 

Settembrini

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« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2007, 03:36:23 PM »
Quote from: Alnag
I agree, it is lie and propaganda. But are you really willing to let them broadcast it without anyone opposing them. I don't. I will be here to provide alternative point of view and to ask them for evidence for these claims.

It used to be like that:

Forgers make moronic stuff on RPG.Net. It was discussed here, and refuted here.
Now, they are making the moronic stuff over HERE, and we are preoccupied with discussing with them on our own grounds. By invitation they come!

And thusly, we lose our lighthouse powers, because we must fight the bullshit and lies right here.
That is not acceptable.

See, the Forgers are basically dead.
There is no new game since two years, that has caught any following.

RPG.Net has atrophied. So they are seeking marginal gain areas, to sell their shit. Because EVERY FLAMEWAR IS CASH for them.

So, the market is saturated, the freshness is away. But our resistance is keeping them IN the discourse. Sure, they have to follow OUR directions, they lost any control of the discourse.
But they still get new publicity, that they so desperately need, because they are in a downward spiral.

They aren´t even bringing new concepts to the internet. All old concepts ALREADY HAVE BEEN refuted.

By still fghting, we prolong the process. The threat is over, their blogs are discontionued, their new games have tanked, their theory is stale, their ashcan is in shambles, their foreign auxiliaries are deserting them.

The onyl reliable force for THEIR publicity is US, or THE WAR.

Without Flamewars, they cease to exist, as they have run their cause.

My point should be clear now. Have fun, see you in some sane discussion in the future.
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Alnag

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« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2007, 03:37:56 PM »
Quote from: Temple
Geez louise, man! Its not like its the Borg were talking about here! Why does it have to be a conspiracy to wipe traditional gaming from the face of the earth? Why cant it be a new kind of rpg among many successful, good rpgs?


Because my dear, these are direct quotes (just translated) I meet with from Forge-fans. And that is even worse than Borg. This is like leeches sucking blood from traditional gaming. Subverting it on every imaginable level.

It could be new kind of rpgs, if it would not behave to its older brothers like a cuckoo. But that is happening, so if you think, I will just stand and look and do nothing, then I am sorry. But I will fight. For equality of all games, all approaches and all play-styles.

You should answer for yourself this question. Do you think, one can have discussion like this on the Forge? Do you think, the Forge would be willing to discuss the flaws of their own approach in the way that is possible here? Without moderation in favour of one kind of games only?
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phasmaphobic

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« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2007, 03:38:42 PM »
Quote from: Settembrini

See, the Forgers are basically dead.
There is no new game since two years, that has caught any following.


Hmmmm.  I don't think I see the relevance.  "Not producing new games" does not necessitate "basically dead" by any means, especially considering that all of their "big hits" are gaining popularity and reaching new audiences.  They really don't need to produce anything else to continue selling games.

J Arcane

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I declare the swine wars to be over. We will now commence the Siege.
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2007, 03:39:03 PM »
Quote from: joewolz
Get over it Sett, you're a dinosaur and they are the future.
Bollocks.  Guys like me are the future.

In 10 years this whole bunch of shit will be forgotten, but all my friends and I will still be playing the way we always have.

The Forge will collapse into obscurity, Pundit will be even further behind the times than ever, and the rest of the gaming world will continue to roll on without either of them.

Oh sure, it'll be trotted out once and awhile by old, sad fuckers, who just can't let thier irrelevant little crusade go, guys like Lev Lafayette, still fighting the "D&D vs. RQ" fight decades later.  

But the rest of gamer-kind will just be doing what they've always done:  Playing what they like to play, how they like to play it, and by and large doing a wonderful job of not fitting into the idiotic boxes some would like to stuff them into.
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Spike

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« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2007, 03:39:38 PM »
Quote from: Temple
Pretending Forge rpgs dont exist on a message board hardly constitutes a boycott, does it?



Sure it could. Language is fluid and adapts to the times.  If, for example, the majority of this site... and to be realistically unrealistic, the RPG.net, suddenly organized and refused to discuss or even contemplate purchacing of 'Indie Press games', then there would be, I rather suspect, a sharp decline in the already limited sales of said games.

It would be, then, a boycott in fact, rather just in concept.
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phasmaphobic

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« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2007, 03:40:59 PM »
Quote from: Alnag

You should answer for yourself this question. Do you think, one can have discussion like this on the Forge? Do you think, the Forge would be willing to discuss the flaws of their own approach in the way that is possible here? Without moderation in favour of one kind of games only?


Have you ever actually posted anything to the Forge?  Elitism aside, they encourage lots fo discussions on lots of different subjects, and only moderate against jackassery and flamewars.

If you were to go over there ignorant and guns-a-blazin', yeah, you'd get moderated to oblivion.

Here's a suggestion: why don't you actually try to bring this discussion over there?  You know, be civil?

Settembrini

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« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2007, 03:42:40 PM »
Everyone who wants to get rid of the Forgers should stop talking with them in public. Should not talk about any of their games.

Really, all criticisms have been made. By endlessly repeating it, we help them more than we damage them.

Thusly, cease fire, let the bastards sink back to the irrelevance they deserve.
If there can't be a TPK against the will of the players it's not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

J Arcane

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« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2007, 03:43:31 PM »
Quote from: Spike
Sure it could. Language is fluid and adapts to the times.  If, for example, the majority of this site... and to be realistically unrealistic, the RPG.net, suddenly organized and refused to discuss or even contemplate purchacing of 'Indie Press games', then there would be, I rather suspect, a sharp decline in the already limited sales of said games.

It would be, then, a boycott in fact, rather just in concept.
The only differenec between Fred Phelps, and the raving homeless guy on the average downtown city block, is media attention.

If you want something to go away, if you think it's irrelevant, the last thing you really want to be doing is giving it more attention.
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Caesar Slaad

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« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2007, 03:43:43 PM »
Eh. Whatever dude.

I'll tell you: I'm not exactly threatened by the forge (or "indies" or "swine"). I've lost far more players to:
1) bad trad books and a sense of entitlement (though I confess that the trend away from trusting the GM is problematic here, but really, it's just about ego.)
2) bad (IMO) trad games

... than I have ever lost or am likely to lose due to "indie" or "forgites" or "swine."

Actually some of their ideas are pretty cool, if you just dig them out from the non-coolness of some games they are attached to.
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Alnag

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« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2007, 03:46:00 PM »
Quote from: phasmaphobic
If you were to go over there ignorant and guns-a-blazin', yeah, you'd get moderated to oblivion.

Here's a suggestion: why don't you actually try to bring this discussion over there?  You know, be civil?


Because I have seen how it goes on. Once you are not in general agreement with the ultimate truth, you will be analyzed, why you are actually posting, and patronized by uncle Ron. I have seen it in any at least a bit interesting thread there. So no, thanx. I prefere freedom of speach here, where the problem can actually be discussed and not just swept under the carpet.
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Brantai

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« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2007, 03:47:14 PM »
Quote from: Caesar Slaad
Eh. Whatever dude.

I'll tell you: I'm not exactly threatened by the forge (or "indies" or "swine"). I've lost far more players to:
1) bad trad books and a sense of entitlement (though I confess that the trend away from trusting the GM is problematic here, but really, it's just about ego.)
2) bad (IMO) trad games

... than I have ever lost or am likely to lose due to "indie" or "forgites" or "swine."

Actually some of their ideas are pretty cool, if you just dig them out from the non-coolness of some games they are attached to.

I particularly like the dm-advice bits of Burning Wheel revised, myself.

Settembrini

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« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2007, 03:50:01 PM »
See? Even this thread is used as a propaganda instrument.
names are named, people are referenced, good things are said.

Now this is a necessary evil for the thread to end the war.
But even as we discuss, it happens.

This shall be the last post in which I brought any attention whatsoever to the forge.
I URGE everyone who is interested in their online-demise to do likewise.
Try it, one week, and see how different things will be around here.

Try it. One week. Then decide for yourself.
If there can't be a TPK against the will of the players it's not an RPG.- Pierce Inverarity

phasmaphobic

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« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2007, 03:50:47 PM »
Quote from: Alnag
I prefere freedom of speach here, where the problem can actually be discussed and not just swept under the carpet.


I get the feeling you're not entirely aware of what discussion is.  When speaking with people who are passionate about their games, damn right they're going to include analyzation of your questions into that discussion.  Things only get swept away if you let them.

And here, this isn't much discussion.  Looking at the threads that get the most attention, I see a lot of "Man fuck the Swine!" followed by a chorus of "yeah fuck em!" and a handful of "No, fuck YOU!"

That's not discussion.

phasmaphobic

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« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2007, 03:52:10 PM »
Quote from: Settembrini

See? Even this thread is used as a propaganda instrument.
names are named, people are referenced, good things are said.


Dude, you started it.

Like I said, you're really working to promote the Forge, with ingenious little thread gems like this one.  Just admit it.