QuoteRetired from action to become passive. Not become monks to fight stuff. No it doesn't make sense.

Alas we have Knight-Monks of Europe so there is precedent.

Quote from: Wrath of God on March 07, 2022, 07:27:48 PMAlas we have Knight-Monks of Europe so there is precedent.

While not my purview, I highly doubt european Knight-Monks worked like a Buddhist equivalent. Because a knight was a governer of territory.

Quote from: Pat on March 05, 2022, 05:29:08 PM

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on March 05, 2022, 12:01:15 PM
I guess to the new generation Star Wars will be a story about never ending Death Stars blowing up a never ending supply of planets, and being blown up in turn by a never ending supply of chosen ones and I guess it will make sense to them in that way.

Episode 10: The Jedi blow up a binary death star
Episode 11: The Jedi blow up a Klemperer rosette of death stars
Episode 12: The Jedi blow up a death star swarm
Episode 13: The Jedi blow up a Jupiter-sized death star
Episode 14: The Jedi blow up a death star Dyson sphere
Episode 15: The Jedi blow up a death star powered by the black hole at the center of the galaxy
Episode 16: The Jedi explore the multiverse and blow up all possible death stars

My God, it's E.E. "Doc" Smith himself!

Well ROTS had a fleet of planet killers, so we are at stage 12 at least.

QuoteWhile not my purview, I highly doubt european Knight-Monks worked like a Buddhist equivalent. Because a knight was a governer of territory.

Knight-monks were not. Until Teutonic Knights kinda illegally forged own country, at least. They were monastic orders of warrior-monks who served as crusaders, and protectors of pilgrims to Holy Land, and later against Northern European pagan remains. Outside feudal structure generally. (Also even knight proper is not necessary lord of territory - knight was generally warrior title, and you could very easily be secular landless knight on court of some lord. And then you could be lord governing territory while not being knight - for instance because you were unable to fight for various reasons.)

So Templars, Hospitalers and Joannites were generally in their prime, before they become more independent and started to do politics on their own, military branch of Catholic Church.
Ergo within organised Jedi religion - guys to do dirty work would be equivalent. Difference is every Jedi monk is both warrior, mystic and diplomat generally.

Quote from: Wrath of God on March 08, 2022, 06:57:33 AMDifference is every Jedi monk is both warrior, mystic and diplomat generally.

Well they are diplomats that don't care that you are enslaved because when you die you return to the force anyway, and thats all that matters.

Sitting around pondering enlightenment is 100% incompatible with being proactive and doing things. Maybe thats why the republic is a corrupt mess by the end for this reason .

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on March 05, 2022, 09:48:35 AM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 04, 2022, 07:41:50 PM
Speaking of midi-chlorians, I would love to have a crossover with Parasite Eve and A Wrinkle In Time. Those series also deal with sentient mitochondria. In PE, the main villain is Mitochondrial Eve, here imagined as a primordial monster. In AWIT, the villains were trying to kill the protagonist's brother by making his mitochondria stop working. It's hilarious in the sheer defiance of known scientific principles.

  Nitpick: The mitochondria bit is from the sequel to A Wrinkle in Time, A Wind in the Door. It's where I first encountered the concept of mitochondria, and it's probably why midichlorians never bothered me so much. Now, that quote from Shrieking Banshee about the Whills, where they're puppeteering the universe ... that's disturbing.

Double Nitpick: The plot in A Wind in the Door includes both mitochondria and farendolae.

The prequels are highly quotable, the characters are memorable, and the stories have an operatic quality.

Take for instance Episode II: Attack of the Clones.

Often considered the worst of the prequels, the story behind Episode II is probably one of the best original sci-fi fantasy stories.  On the surface, there's two Jedi, a master and a padawan, growing apart as the padawan is secretly in love.  The sinister side of the story is what most people don't understand.  The war that Palpatine started will destroy two things he created: clones and droids.  That means Palp won't be ruling over the corpses of the universe.  However, he can't rule as a Sith Lord unless the Jedi are destroyed.  So he lures them into the battle to divide them up and destroy them.  We see this as the Jedi win the Battle of Geonosis but it was a Pyrrhic Victory. 

Quote from: AtomicPope on March 08, 2022, 08:42:51 AM
The prequels are highly quotable, the characters are memorable, and the stories have an operatic quality.

Take for instance Episode II: Attack of the Clones.

Often considered the worst of the prequels, the story behind Episode II is probably one of the best original sci-fi fantasy stories.  On the surface, there's two Jedi, a master and a padawan, growing apart as the padawan is secretly in love.  The sinister side of the story is what most people don't understand.  The war that Palpatine started will destroy two things he created: clones and droids.  That means Palp won't be ruling over the corpses of the universe.  However, he can't rule as a Sith Lord unless the Jedi are destroyed.  So he lures them into the battle to divide them up and destroy them.  We see this as the Jedi win the Battle of Geonosis but it was a Pyrrhic Victory.

Palpatine also draws together much of who and what might resist him into the Separatists. If not for the Clone Wars, the Empire might have faced a far larger and better equipped Rebellion.

I haven't watched the prequels in almost two decades, but the stupid things I remember are all visuals. The droids marching in close formation, the blockade made up of tightly packed ships, Jar-Jar Binks' facial expressions and Padme's lack thereof, that kind of thing. The parts I remember positively are the politics. Star Wars is supposedly about action, with super-powered swordfights, armored soldiers with blasters, and grand space battles. But the pre-trilogy is about commerce, diplomacy, internal corruption, intrigue, and psychological manipulation. And Palpatine plays them all for fools, and wins. He's one of the greatest villains in all of cinema, much more so than the more visually and audibly iconic Vader.

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 08, 2022, 08:52:27 AMPalpatine also draws together much of who and what might resist him into the Separatists. If not for the Clone Wars, the Empire might have faced a far larger and better equipped Rebellion.

Pretty much. And it also wrecks the galactic economy leaving people begging for stability. He would rather rule over ashes then serve during prosperity.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on March 08, 2022, 10:47:26 AM

Quote from: HappyDaze on March 08, 2022, 08:52:27 AMPalpatine also draws together much of who and what might resist him into the Separatists. If not for the Clone Wars, the Empire might have faced a far larger and better equipped Rebellion.

Pretty much. And it also wrecks the galactic economy leaving people begging for stability. He would rather rule over ashes then serve during prosperity.

And seized power via emergency powers granted due to the emergency he engineered... after which he promised the galaxy they would build back better as the political elites applauded him for it.

But no, it's just a stupid space fantasy with no relevance or warnings about the real world. [/sarcasm]

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 08, 2022, 11:33:03 AMBut no, it's just a stupid space fantasy with no relevance or warnings about the real world. [/sarcasm]

I don't think anybody said that. I mean Lucas was uprfront of this being his intent to be political. Some people are just insistent it should have remained as a pure space fantasy.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on March 08, 2022, 11:39:37 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 08, 2022, 11:33:03 AMBut no, it's just a stupid space fantasy with no relevance or warnings about the real world. [/sarcasm]

I don't think anybody said that. I mean Lucas was uprfront of this being his intent to be political. Some people are just insistent it should have remained as a pure space fantasy.

I'm not sure that's possible. Unless you're sticking to purely personal stakes and ignoring the wider world or universe, either the politics will have to echo elements of real political history, or it'll be nonsense that makes no sense and which people can't identify with.

Quote from: Pat on March 08, 2022, 11:58:07 AM

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on March 08, 2022, 11:39:37 AM

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 08, 2022, 11:33:03 AMBut no, it's just a stupid space fantasy with no relevance or warnings about the real world. [/sarcasm]

I don't think anybody said that. I mean Lucas was uprfront of this being his intent to be political. Some people are just insistent it should have remained as a pure space fantasy.

I'm not sure that's possible. Unless you're sticking to purely personal stakes and ignoring the wider world or universe, either the politics will have to echo elements of real political history, or it'll be nonsense that makes no sense and which people can't identify with.

One of the best sci fi novels of all time was about galactic politics. Dune is both subtle and blatant inspirations for parts of Star Wars.
The question is, how much galactic politics is the right amount? Part of why I think the sequels were so weak is that there's a lack of stakes and tension because they backed away from the galactic politics part of the story, and hoped that spectacle and melodrama could support the narrative on their own.