I've heard good things about the show's premiere; that's its really good, gripping TV that reignites the decades old comic story with some new focus on different aspects that were perhaps understated in the original series. Anyone else seen it and have thoughts to share?
Quote from: CarlD.;1111135I've heard good things about the show's premiere; that's its really good, gripping TV that reignites the decades old comic story with some new focus on different aspects that were perhaps understated in the original series. Anyone else seen it and have thoughts to share?
If by "really good, gripping TV that reignites the decades old comic story with some new focus" you mean it's woke, boring and nothing at all like the original Watchmen, then yes it's all of that and then some.
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Wokemeh? :)
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1111391If by "really good, gripping TV that reignites the decades old comic story with some new focus" you mean it's woke, boring and nothing at all like the original Watchmen, then yes it's all of that and then some.
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What problems do you have with it?
Watchmen was one of those stories that's told without much room for adding stuff without turning it into a farce.
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/975/197/aa1.jpg)
I'm only interested in rubbernecking to see how bad it is.
Quote from: CarlD.;1111420What problems do you have with it?
Like I said, its woke, boring and has zero to do with Watchmen besides the name.
Woke: Soulsister whose personality is black wahmen, she's the good "retired" cop who comes to the rescue when the police force can't, of course she totally can. White supremacists had to be the bad guys, the cops are a fascist force.
Boring: Failed to catch my attention, failed to sell me into it, failed to tell enough of a story.
Zero to do with Watchmen: Watchmen was a deconstruction of the superhero genre, it told a hypothetical story about a world with superheroes and how those superheroes would impact the world, it was very political but not preachy, it showed flawed humans with superpowers, it had an interesting plot and concept. This is something with the same name but inherits exactly zero from the original, hell even the movie was closer to the comic books than this. In Watchmen the villain was 3d, here the villains are 1d caricatures. Watchmen had a depth of plot missing here altogether, Watchmen had female characters, this has a female 1d cutout. Watchmen had "good guys" who were shades of grey, this has a soulsister who has no depth.
But if you go by what the shillmedia says it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.
So no comparison to The Boys, then?
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1111428Like I said, its woke, boring and has zero to do with Watchmen besides the name.
Thanks.
As for why I ask: "Woke" really doesn't mean allot to me. Boring is subjective so I was hoping to get more detail as too why it was boring and I was curious what changes had been made.
And the politics in a series don't generally bother me. The original series was and Alan Moore's work in general often has social and political commentary woven in. Personally, I like that especially in "gritty" low end superheroes.
I'll have to see if its get annoying beat you over the head level for me. Which I suspect is quite a bit lower than allot of the posters on this site. But that's why I like to ask around: to get a wide array of opinions.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1111391[ATTACH=CONFIG]3940[/ATTACH]
Isnt she the daughter of one of the black heroes who was killed by bigots? If yes then she might be appropriate if the show is set after the movie? New and old heroes stepping up again?
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1111428Zero to do with Watchmen: Watchmen was a deconstruction of the superhero genre, it told a hypothetical story about a world with superheroes and how those superheroes would impact the world, it was very political but not preachy, it showed flawed humans with superpowers, it had an interesting plot and concept.
er... small note... Aside from Dr Manhattan, and possibly Ozymandias, virtually none of the heroes in that setting actually have powers. It is more a deconstruction of street level pulp heroes at that point.
And Moore seems to have wanted mostly to deconstruct Ditko's Randivistic black and white moral code heroes since quite a few are based off various Ditko creations. The Question and Blue Beetle obviously. Captain Atom and Nightshade as well I believe?
I just watched the first episode. I doubt I'll watch any further. Nothing really pulled me in--not the characters, the visuals, the action--nothing. Whatever story they're trying to tell just isn't for me.
Quote from: Omega;1111511er... small note... Aside from Dr Manhattan, and possibly Ozymandias, virtually none of the heroes in that setting actually have powers. It is more a deconstruction of street level pulp heroes at that point.
And Moore seems to have wanted mostly to deconstruct Ditko's Randivistic black and white moral code heroes since quite a few are based off various Ditko creations. The Question and Blue Beetle obviously. Captain Atom and Nightshade as well I believe?
Comedian doesn't seem to get old and seems stronger than humanly possible. So that makes 3 out of six, since you can't argue that being able to dodge bullets isn't indicative of some superpower. Tell me again about how virtually none of the heroes has superpowers?
And I already said it was a deconstruction of the genre, so I don't know what your argument there is.
Having seen the 1st episode, I enjoyed the show. It painted an interesting picture of an alternate America (similar the original miniseries) in some way darker (more violent, racial tension reaching a violent boiling point with the likes of the 7th Calvary and weird a(the 'squid storm/transdimnsional attacks). It left me curious about the background both of the characters and the setting, judging from the previews it appears to be heading some where big. I'm not sure why the main character was dismissed as "soulsista" (aside from the obvious I guess which is some ironic given themes in the show), she struck me as developed as any others characters with a personality and background that I want to see more off and motivations that were understandable. I liked her and the other characters seem interesting as well.
The police seem less "fascist" then besieged, forced by events and shaped by an alternate culture to adopt the techniques of masked vigilantes but still with rules of engagement (they have tighter control over the use of lethal force than cops in the real world
Its an original setting with new character so there is no gender/race swapping that I'm aware off. Has this story been done in another venue? It seems to stick to what some have demanded: No character with altered but new ones created. *shrug*
Though, I suppose the world might be considered "left" leaning (increased fire arms restrictions and enviormental laws are suggested as existing at least in part though the antagonists are pretty well armed... ) OTOH, Nixon is heralded as one of the great presidents and the 'culture wars'seem to have gone hot, its no utopia and the characters have flaws as well.
Edit:The music is great too.
Quote from: CarlD.;1111595Having seen the 1st episode, I enjoyed the show. It painted an interesting picture of an alternate America (similar the original miniseries) in some way darker (more violent, racial tension reaching a violent boiling point with the likes of the 7th Calvary and weird a(the 'squid storm/transdimnsional attacks). It left me curious about the background both of the characters and the setting, judging from the previews it appears to be heading some where big. I'm not sure why the main character was dismissed as "soulsista" (aside from the obvious I guess which is some ironic given themes in the show), she struck me as developed as any others characters with a personality and background that I want to see more off and motivations that were understandable. I liked her and the other characters seem interesting as well.
The police seem less "fascist" then besieged, forced by events and shaped by an alternate culture to adopt the techniques of masked vigilantes but still with rules of engagement (they have tighter control over the use of lethal force than cops in the real world
Its an original setting with new character so there is no gender/race swapping that I'm aware off. Has this story been done in another venue? It seems to stick to what some have demanded: No character with altered but new ones created. *shrug*
Though, I suppose the world might be considered "left" leaning (increased fire arms restrictions and enviormental laws are suggested as existing at least in part though the antagonists are pretty well armed... ) OTOH, Nixon is heralded as one of the great presidents and the 'culture wars'seem to have gone hot, so its no utopia.
Are you this dishonest always or just on the days that end with a Y?
Did I ever said there was any race/gender swapping in this show? The answer is fuck no, so why would you bring it up?
I think I know why you did it, but I would like your confirmation. You did it to paint me and anybody who doesn't like this show as an evul wacist.
And if you didn't do it for that reason then I fail to see what my complaints about other shows are relevant here.
As for how I see a character, unless you think yourself the arbiter of the actual objective truth, (which you probably do) my subjective opinion is just as valid as yours.
Those critics really showed the fans. 0.25 on the key demo, about 800k people saw it, and they are already saying it will be only one season, this smells like all the woke comics getting cancelled on the first issue and printing up to 5-6 issues they already had done and paid.
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Quote from: GeekyBugle;1111597Are you this dishonest always or just on the days that end with a Y?
Did I ever said there was any race/gender swapping in this show? The answer is fuck no, so why would you bring it up?
This might come as a shock, but everything isn't about you. The issue with gender/race swapping in comic adaptation has come up allot on this site and among critics of comic adaptations and shows. in general. I didn't get why some of them have been complaining about this show among others they lack it. If I named or referred to you saying it was present in this show, please quote it.
You're kind of confessing to that being part of your motivation. Its yelling "I didn't fart!' when someone asks "What smell?" Its not a good look.
Otherwise, get the fuck over yourself. If I was referring specifically to you I have said so. I wasn't even replying or quoting you, but you seem to love Rage Boners and look for any opportunity/excuse to get one. Meh, whatever gets you off.
You did dismiss the character as "soulsista" for no reason I could discern after seeing the show in question so her race does seem to be only reason for the labeling. *shrug* Guess I hit nerve.
QuoteAs for how I see a character, unless you think yourself the arbiter of the actual objective truth, (which you probably do) my subjective opinion is just as valid as yours.
Whining about who uses subjective vs objective truth from the guy that's been bitching how HORRIBLE and WRONG the show then pouts and cries and stomp his little feet when someone disagreement? You're adorable! LOL
Quote from: CarlD.;1111626This might come as a shock, but everything isn't about you. The issue with gender/race swapping in comic adaptation has come up allot on this site and among critics of comic adaptations and shows. I didn't get why some of them have been complaining about this show among others they lack it. If I named or referred to you saying it was present in this show, please quote it.
Otherwise, get the fuck over yourself. If I was referring specifically to you I have said so. ter see
You did dismiss the character as "soulsista" for no reason I could discern after seeing the show in question so her race does seem to be only reason for the labeling. *shrug* Guess I hit nerve.
Yep, I knew it, "you must like this else you're a racist"
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1111602Those critics really showed the fans. 0.25 on the key demo, about 800k people saw it, and they are already saying it will be only one season, this smells like all the woke comics getting cancelled on the first issue and printing up to 5-6 issues they already had done and paid.
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This might surprise you too. Critics opinions are just as subjective as mine (or yours) so just valid or invalid in any others. Man, you're determined to prove you're opinion is the right one I bet you think you're some judge of Objective Truth or something. LOL
Quote from: CarlD.;1111630This might surprise you too. Critics opinions are just as subjective as mine (or yours) so just valid or invalid in any others. Man, you're determined to prove you're opinion is the right one I bet you think you're some judge of Objective Truth or something. LOL
Yep, you're a shill, no I never said my subjective opinion was the one truth, neither have I said you must like/hate X or else you're a wacist. You're a shill because the actions you take (Praising something and anybody who doesn't like it is a bad person)
But seems like my subjective opinion is shared by most people, and since the shills have proven they will push for/against stuff for ideological reasons nobody takes their opinions seriously anymore.
Now go back to being a good shill and try to convince people that they must like this shitty show or else they are wacists.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1111633Yep, you're a shill, no I never said my subjective opinion was the one truth, neither have I said you must like/hate X or else you're a wacist. You're a shill because the actions you take (Praising something and anybody who doesn't like it is a bad person)
Are you arguing with voices in your head?
What hell are you even talking about? I never said any of that. You accused me thinking I was arbiter of Objective Truth... because I didn't agree with you and didn't understand some label you slapped on a perfectly fine (IMHO). I didn't say you must like or hate anything I just can't think of any good reason for throwing around titles like "soulsista". Its if I referred to a character as Redneck for no seeming reason they're white. It would bear explanation and wouldn't be good optic.
QuoteBut seems like my subjective opinion is shared by most people, and since the shills have proven they will push for/against stuff for ideological reasons nobody takes their opinions seriously anymore.
*shrug* I don't base my opinions of their popularity. Do you get a dollar if allot of people agree with you or something?
Allot of people thought Vanilla Ice was a great rapper. I think he sucks. I didn't say people that didn't like the show were wacists, Elmer. or even racists. I didn't see why people that didn't like 'race/gender" swapping had complaints about it as it gives them what they allegedly wanted: Original characters not adulterated ones. I'm not unsympathetic to the position I just doesn't bug me much.
You think the show is shitty? Great. I don't. I still don't what calling her a "soulsista" was supposed to be about though.
Does this crap you spew actually make sense in your head or do you read it later when the Rage high burns off and wonder "WTF was I thinking?" but pride won't let you delete it?
Or do you just love playing poor victim dude in picked internet fights too much to stop yourself?
I guess it helps pass the time when you aren't reading all those shitty comics or watching those shitty shows...
And its adorable.
Quote from: Kiero;1111430So no comparison to The Boys, then?
If I had to rank them, after this 1 episode, I think I like The Boys a little more. I went into it with admittedly low expectations and pleasantly surprised as generally dislike Ennis and enjoy Alan Moore. Watchmen was one of my fave graphic novels and I've long been curious what a post "watchmen" world might be like. So far, this show's depiction interests me and seems to echo Moore tone wise.
Quote from: Omega;1111508Isnt she the daughter of one of the black heroes who was killed by bigots? If yes then she might be appropriate if the show is set after the movie? New and old heroes stepping up again?
Her background, what's hinted at, may be similar to that though perhaps a little stranger or more convoluted at least.
Quote from: Omega;1111511er... small note... Aside from Dr Manhattan, and possibly Ozymandias, virtually none of the heroes in that setting actually have powers. It is more a deconstruction of street level pulp heroes at that point.
And Moore seems to have wanted mostly to deconstruct Ditko's Randivistic black and white moral code heroes since quite a few are based off various Ditko creations. The Question and Blue Beetle obviously. Captain Atom and Nightshade as well I believe?
That's one way I think the show echoes the original. There are strong shades of grey particularly in the ways the police have had to adapt, some of which seem dystopian.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1111513I just watched the first episode. I doubt I'll watch any further. Nothing really pulled me in--not the characters, the visuals, the action--nothing. Whatever story they're trying to tell just isn't for me.
I felt pretty much the opposite. It really grabbed me and I wonder where its headed. But different strokes and all that. Allot of people liked Rogue One and really didn't care for it.
Before I forget I'd like to talk about some issues that were brought up here and elsewhere concerning the series premise now that I've gotten a look at the actual show.
Ratman_TF brought it up here though I've heard it mentioned elsewhere
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1111423Watchmen was one of those stories that's told without much room for adding stuff without turning it into a farce.
I can understand that viewpoint; somethings are classics and "complete" as they stand. There's nothing much added to the Mona Lisa repainting her except as a cat-girl (Unless you're really into cat-girls).
The series takes with, IMO, wise path or not really adding or changing the original story. It uses the same setting, about 30 years later, extrapolating an alternate history based on the divergent one began in the original story. While there are ties in in the narrative (Some Easter eggs and call back like the visual composition after Red Knight beats information out a subject than points back to the scene after Rorschach killed Big Figure (https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1xs9uQ-IpXs/ScWTWHWyh8I/AAAAAAAABXk/ynPX6J5_X1g/s400/Watchmen-puddle.jpg), Looking Glass' surreal mask particularly the scene where he has it partially rolled up to eat and how the cos refer to their mask as their 'face')
There's hints of more direct tie ins like the police using the Owl flyer (or something very much like it), 7th Calvary terrorists based using a version of Rorschach's journal writings as part of their spiel and crude versions of his mask, the bizarre storms that are thought to be either more alien incursions or a hoax pulled off by the government. There may even be a tie between the main character and another, older man that hints at having the unusual longevity and vigor The Comedian seemed to have. It didn't strike me as over done or farcical. Obviously tolerance is going to vary and if you're opinion is that Watchman was better left alone then obviously its not going to work for you. My feelings tend to vary from work to works.
Related to that viewpoint is the idea that the Watchmen story is best left with the ambivalent ending it has. Whatever happens next is up to the viewer. Again, I can see that outlook. That does appear to be authorial intent. But I've always been intrigued by the idea of the world after the graphic novel/comics. I guess I'm just part of the target audience, but everyone isn't.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1111556Comedian doesn't seem to get old and seems stronger than humanly possible. So that makes 3 out of six, since you can't argue that being able to dodge bullets isn't indicative of some superpower. Tell me again about how virtually none of the heroes has superpowers?
Comedian seems to be aging in the comics and movie. And just comes across as very fit. Try again please.
Quote from: Omega;1111849Comedian seems to be aging in the comics and movie. And just comes across as very fit. Try again please.
The book mentions repeatedly that The Comedian was the youngest member of the Minutemen. That's why he's not as old as everyone else. Also, The Comedian's superpowers were so amazing that he was thrown out a window to his death and stabbed in the face by a pregnant woman with a broken bottle.
Yeah, The Comedian had no superpowers.
Quote from: Kael;1111913The book mentions repeatedly that The Comedian was the youngest member of the Minutemen. That's why he's not as old as everyone else. Also, The Comedian's superpowers were so amazing that he was thrown out a window to his death and stabbed in the face by a pregnant woman with a broken bottle.
Yeah, The Comedian had no superpowers.
Wasn't one of Ozymandias issues with The Comedian that he was one of the few people that he defeated him HTH combat? He might have been a normal, but he was a badass.
I admit I got the impression was was something special about him too but looking back that impression came more from the film than the graphic novel which could be chalked up to cinematic licence.
Quote from: CarlD.;1111932Wasn't one of Ozymandias issues with The Comedian that he was one of the few people that he defeated him HTH combat? He might have been a normal, but he was a badass.
I admit I got the impression was was something special about him too but looking back that impression came more from the film than the graphic novel which could be chalked up to cinematic licence.
My impression from the comic was that he was the top of the heap among the normal humans -- but he was completely out of Ozymandias' league, just as Ozymandias was completely out of Doctor Manhattan's league.
Quote from: CarlD.;1111932I admit I got the impression was was something special about him too but looking back that impression came more from the film than the graphic novel which could be chalked up to cinematic licence.
The film made all of the "non-powered" characters act at low-superhuman capabilities.
Quote from: jhkim;1111952My impression from the comic was that he was the top of the heap among the normal humans -- but he was completely out of Ozymandias' league, just as Ozymandias was completely out of Doctor Manhattan's league.
It was an upset victory by an underdog; Ozy lost to the Comedian
once early in Ozy's career because he underestimated the Comedian and failed to accurately predict his moves, but the Comedian was certainly
not "completely out of Ozy's league."
Quote from: HappyDaze;1111963It was an upset victory by an underdog; Ozy lost to the Comedian once early in Ozy's career because he underestimated the Comedian and failed to accurately predict his moves, but the Comedian was certainly not "completely out of Ozy's league."
Ah, thanks, I'm glad I wasn't remembering that totally wrong. That lose really seemed to stick in Oz's craw.
I don't remember a Black vs. White hate narrative in the original Watchman comics. Maybe I forgot as I haven't read the originals in a couple decades.
I'm cool with the idea of a Watchmen 2: Electric Boogaloo, but the trailer made it clear HBO just wanted something divisive and woke. Hopefully they'll take a bath on the money loss.
But hey, we can't promote more racial and cultural division in the USA without Hollywood's assistance! Gotta stir up that tasty hate!
I hope the series goes more into how the 7th Calvery came to adopt Rorschach as part of their ideology and imagary. Rorshach was many things, allot of them dubious but he didn't strike as an ardent racist though he did rantg against immigrants. He was pretty damn complicated.
Rorschach was a sexist with some misogynistic leanings who murdered rapists. He was a Truman and nuclear bomb fanboy who refused to accept the death of millions in a scene reminiscent of a nuclear bomb that was supposedly for "the greater good." The intro to Watchmen - "The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down and whisper 'No'" is contradicted by the ending, where he does try to save them and refuses to accept their deaths as necessary. Arguably, that could make him the most heroic character in the original, but that's a long debate.
Trying to reduce him to a binary doesn't hold up. Several times in the series, the things he says don't match the actions he takes. If Rorschach were somehow put into this era, I don't think he'd be neither with the cops or the Seventh Cavalry, likely opposed to the Seventh Cavalry not necessarily because he disagreed fully with them, but because they murdered a bunch of cops.
Rorshach is a complex chasraacter. But the motivations of the Seventh Cavalry aren't yet apparent. They are definitely wearing white supremacist iconography but we've only been told they are racist white supremacists, we've been shown very little aside from their extreme dedication to whatever their ends are, willing to kill themselves rather than be captured.
Like things such as the so called "cancer bomb" which was speculation by the police, we really don't know why they were trying to acquire a bunch of Dr. Manhattan derived power cells yert It'll be interesting to see where it goes. They could definitely be simple bad guys or they could be after something more complex (maybe pawns in something bigger's game).
Quote from: HappyDaze;1111963It was an upset victory by an underdog; Ozy lost to the Comedian once early in Ozy's career because he underestimated the Comedian and failed to accurately predict his moves, but the Comedian was certainly not "completely out of Ozy's league."
I was saying the opposite. Doctor Manhattan was a god; Ozymandias was a demigod (catch bullets, change the world); and the Comedian was a bad-ass human.
It's just barely possible for there to be an upset victory where someone can beat another who is in a higher league -- like the Comedian's early fight where he managed to beat Ozy, because Ozy underestimated him. Just like Ozy managed to sort of beat Doctor Manhattan with his plot. But it's a one-time upset. When Ozy killed the Comedian, it wasn't a tough fight - he was just showing off.
You could argue that Hooded Justice beat up the Comedian pretty good after he caught him raping his girlfriend (Silk Spectre.) Although, it's also possible to assume that the Comedian was goading him into a beatdown in the way the Joker often goads Batman into beatings.
As for Rorschach, he has particular distaste for "fornicators," whores, and child abusers which is due to his own childhood experiences of being abused by his prostitute mother. His landlord calls him a "Nazi" and they find copies of the right-wing, conservative propaganda paper "New Frontiersman" in his dilapidated apartment after his arrest for Murdoch's murder. There is a sample of the New Frontiersman in the comic that has racist and social stereotypes of Jews, Blacks, Italians, etc. The paper depicts the masked "Hero" as "Aryan" despite none of the masked heroes looking as such and defends the KKK.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1111391If by "really good, gripping TV that reignites the decades old comic story with some new focus" you mean it's woke, boring and nothing at all like the original Watchmen, then yes it's all of that and then some.
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Just saw first episode. Can confirm.
Oh but there's a good white guy in it, and it's Don Johnson! BUT.....
Spoiler
he's hanged at the end of the first episode
Quote from: Trond;1112077Oh but there's a good white guy in it, and it's Don Johnson!
What about Looking Glass, Red Scare and the other Caucasian cops?
Edit: I really don't think you and people that share your feelings about Judd would like the reveal in Ep 2.
Its is funny how much some of the elements meant to poke fun at the "Left" in the series, particularly in the 2nd episode are pissing them off as much as other things did for people across the aisle, even some in this thread. We're a funny species especially when you bring politics into the picture.
Lindelof's approach to the politics/social issues feels quite true to the original comic. The characters that are 'liberals' in Watchmen are either manipulative egomaniacs (like Veidt, who styles himself as a progressive humanitarian while working to kill millions) or totally ineffectual (For example, Night Owl who never actually accomplishes anything more than beating up thugs). The story was sharply critical of fascism, very clear-eyed about the immense personality defects and ideological failings in right-wing characters like Rorschach and the Comedian, but didn't up the liberals as infallible, flawless heroes. The HBO series seems to to along those line, but in characters and setting.
Its just the 2nd episode, that may very well change, but I think some people are taking a quick look and going with their knee jerk reaction driven largely by what camp they're in. That applies to fans and detractors and somewhat ironically, regardless of their chosen team jerseys.
I said in another thread that the social justice themes were so laughably heavy handed that you could turn it into a drinking game. Off the top of my head in the second episode:
-Black guy gets spit on for nothing, take a drink.
-Magical Negro character, take a drink.
-The LGBTQ "Alphabet People" got some new letters, take a drink.
-Reparations benefits are available, take a drink.
-KKK uniform, take two drinks
etc.
Its so heavy handed you've got to believe there is more to it. The writer usually has some good ideas and fails to stick the landing with them, IME.
Regarding the 7th Cav, if the tabloid published Rorschach's journal that sort of cult following kind of makes sense. Maybe Ozy is pulling their strings somehow also, and maybe Don Johnson was a clone as we see he has that technology.
I suspect that the rain of squid is a precursor to Ozy using the master plan in the comics as a way to "solve" racism. We'll see. Taking on that type of material is very risky in this environment, but it could really pay off if done well. I'd say there is at least some chance of that being the case, and a decent chance of it being the trainwreck it appears to be on the surface after two shows.
Newsflash: Watchmen is left wing. In other news a bear shits in the woods.
When Rotten Tomatoes differs between Critics and Viewers by 40% or more (either way) it's nearly always due to SJW politics.
I appreciated that there are some scenes scenes that play with expectation, IMO. The early scene of episode 1 when the cop pulls the guy over feels very does a goood job setting up expectations only to immediately complicate or scramble them. The scene is staged to remind us of similar scenes in media where a cop pulls over a clearly-nervous driver, but the races of the cop and driver are the opposite of what we might expect in the age of Black Lives Matter but the white driver is nervous acting slow and hesitant, apparently trying to avoid violence..But then the cop goes to have his gun unlocked--the sort of gun control/police violence limitation many on the left would be pretty happy to see enacted and while jumping through those limiting bureaucratic hurdles he's vulnerable vulnerable and the scene ends with the black cop being shot to death by the driver, who it turns out is a white supremacist terrorist.
The scene is politically charged, but it defies easy categorization if you try to reduce It to a simple message that applies to our current political landscape in any sort of neat and tidy way. It reverses our expectations of the power dynamic, then reverses them again, leaving the viewers to interpret the scene in very different ways depending on their own perspective and political leanings like the Watchmen comic has done for decades.
I get the feeling the Judd's background is going to be more complex, likely the same with the 7th Calvary. In a series with a general air of mystery and conspiracy they're a little too direct. Though the Calvary seems almost like a critique of the 30 yrs of "leftist" rule, the reaction people have had to feeling even more stigmatized and abused, growing an endemic problem in America to fanatical murderous extreme like a salted wound growing irritated.
That and other signs of overreach (like that ridiculous minute and a half FCC mandated Trigger warning or things like increased control and 'lose of other rights' that character complain about, including a black character in one instance felt like poking at Left Wing heavy handedness.
And has portions of the Left Wing viewers as pissed off as some of the people on this site
Though judging from threads discussing the series Any actual Trigger warnings before TV shows should ignore trivial things like nudity and language and focus on the real divisive fury inciting matters: Politics.
Weird but so far it doesnt feel very Watchmen. Not as badly as the Squadron Supreme felt very NOT Squadron in Avengers animated. But it just feels off so far.
Quote from: CRKrueger;1112551When Rotten Tomatoes differs between Critics and Viewers by 40% or more (either way) it's nearly always due to SJW politics.
Most movie critics have always disliked low brow comedies and horror movies that a lot of audiences love, that is usually where you see the widest difference. It has little to do with SJW politics unless the SJWs have created a time machine back to the 60s.
Quote from: Rhiannon;1112789Most movie critics have always disliked low brow comedies and horror movies that a lot of audiences love, that is usually where you see the widest difference. It has little to do with SJW politics unless the SJWs have created a time machine back to the 60s.
Ghostbusters 2016, I rest my case.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1112815Ghostbusters 2016, I rest my case.
GB:GB (Ghost Busters: Gender Bent) suffered I think not so much from its wokeness as it did from its hostility towards any male criticizing the movie or event just saying "doesnt look llike my kind of movie" and the disrespect to the female characters probably didn't help either. Outrage marketing fails again.
As for Agendamen. Who knows? Its a TV series and now-a-days these things can be remarkably short lived. I suspect though it will soldier on in part from nostalgia and hype until enough viewers realize this isnt Watchmen and quit faster than the casual viewers can replace. And they will lose those too after a time if it doesnt meet expectations.
I think though the show has potential. But its unlikely to see it without a Discovery class overhaul. Which didnt save Discovery it seems.
Quote from: Rhiannon;1112789It has little to do with SJW politics unless the SJWs have created a time machine back to the 60s.
Not sure it relates to online shill reviews of this latest shitty Watchmen knockoff/cash grab, but that's almost exactly what they're trying to do. Now if only someone else could create one that goes back to the 80s, that'd be great. Probably make for a better revisionist Watchmen, too.
So a few more episodes in, it is looking more like a train wreck than anything insightful. The woke sledgehammers are replaced by ham fisted dialogue and situations, such as the worlds worst suicide bomber. I don't know what they were thinking with this.
This (https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia)might answer some questions for anyone watching the show in this thread.
Episode 6 was pretty informative (or confirmed some things for the more astute viewers) Good world building, the setting felt like it moved in the more pulpish/comic book direction and some of the reasons the Klan and related movement might be more of an issue in this world than in our own came out with some revelation about some of the historical characters (The Minutemen).
And another possible tie to our world, at least according to some fan theories:
Spoiler
QuoteThis could be just a coincidence, but somehow I doubt it...
Remember the guy Will tried to arrest? Gave his name as Fred. In the later scene where Will shoots him, he was hanging around next to a meat delivery truck, possibly his, bearing the name "F.T. and Sons".
Can we think of a real, historical person whose initials were F.T.; who started a supermarket chain, and later went into business with his sons; who was well known for his racism (having once been arrested for taking part in a Klan march); and was a stocky, balding guy with a mustache?
Why yes we can. His name was Fred Trump.
For another interesting aspect about of real-world parallels, I read an interesting discussion of how in the Watchmen universe, when costumed vigilantes became a real aspect of the world, takes of fictional superheroes dropped in popularity
As a consequence of this the way Superman had an effect on the KKK's prominence, basically in the mid 20th century some KKK documents and information were leaked describing their practices, their terminology and their nefarious plans and were used as story points for a Superman story run in how he fought the KKK that ridiculed their terms and ideals which led to a huge negative public reception for the group. In this alternate world, the same didn't happen due to the drop in fiction comic books. Its something to think about considering the alarming state of affairs in OK, in the show.
Quote from: CarlD.;1115441For another interesting aspect about of real-world parallels, I read an interesting discussion of how in the Watchmen universe, when costumed vigilantes became a real aspect of the world, takes of fictional superheroes dropped in popularity.
Do you honestly believe that any of the reasons you said is the reason that Watchmen is currently airing shit about white supremacy, KKK and other such bullshit? And not the writers and the general cultures slant that they actively express?
Aaaand it's gone...
https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/tv/2020/01/16/watchmen-second-hbo-season-wont-happen-after-creator-bails/4491269002/
That was short. Only 9 episodes? That seems unusually few for a whole season?
Quote from: Omega;1119323That was short. Only 9 episodes? That seems unusually few for a whole season?
Mandalorian had 8 episdoes in it's first season.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1119357Mandalorian had 8 episodes in it's first season.
Yeah, because now all these cable and steaming shows are imitating the lazy British shows that do 13 episodes or less each year.
In the '60s we had 26 episodes each season of an action adventure show.
In the 1990s it was 20 to 22 episodes each year.
Hell, the show "24" had to get special permission to do
24 episodes each season to match its own title.
- Ed C.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1119357Mandalorian had 8 episdoes in it's first season.
Thats even more short.