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Author Topic: HBO's Watchmen  (Read 7052 times)

CarlD.

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HBO's Watchmen
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2019, 05:37:47 PM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1111597
Are you this dishonest always or just on the days that end with a Y?

Did I ever said there was any race/gender swapping in this show? The answer is fuck no, so why would you bring it up?

This might come as a shock, but everything isn't about you. The issue with gender/race swapping in comic adaptation has come up allot on this site and among critics of comic adaptations and shows. in general. I didn't get why some of them have been complaining about this show among others they lack it. If I named or referred to you saying it was present in this show, please quote it.

You're kind of confessing to that being part of your motivation. Its yelling "I didn't fart!' when someone asks "What smell?" Its not a good look.

Otherwise, get the fuck over yourself. If I was referring specifically to you I have said so. I wasn't even replying or quoting you, but you seem to love Rage Boners and look for any opportunity/excuse to get one. Meh, whatever gets you off.

You did dismiss the character as "soulsista" for no reason I could discern after seeing the show in question so her race does seem to be only reason for the labeling. *shrug* Guess I hit nerve.

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As for how I see a character, unless you think yourself the arbiter of the actual objective truth, (which you probably do) my subjective opinion is just as valid as yours.

Whining about  who uses subjective vs objective truth from the guy that's been bitching how HORRIBLE and WRONG the show then pouts and cries and stomp his little feet when someone disagreement? You're adorable! LOL
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 05:51:57 PM by CarlD. »
"I once heard an evolutionary biologist talk about how violent simians are; they are horrifically violent. He then went on to add that he was really hopeful about humanity because "we're monkeys who manage *not* to kill each other most of the time.""

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GeekyBugle

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« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2019, 05:40:48 PM »
Quote from: CarlD.;1111626
This might come as a shock, but everything isn't about you. The issue with gender/race swapping in comic adaptation has come up allot on this site and among critics of comic adaptations and shows. I didn't get why some of them have been complaining about this show among others they lack it. If I named or referred to you saying it was present in this show, please quote it.

Otherwise, get the fuck over yourself. If I was referring specifically to you I have said so. ter see

You did dismiss the character as "soulsista" for no reason I could discern after seeing the show in question so her race does seem to be only reason for the labeling. *shrug* Guess I hit nerve.

Yep, I knew it, "you must like this else you're a racist"
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

CarlD.

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« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2019, 05:51:13 PM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1111602
Those critics really showed the fans. 0.25 on the key demo, about 800k people saw it, and they are already saying it will be only one season, this smells like all the woke comics getting cancelled on the first issue and printing up to 5-6 issues they already had done and paid.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3944[/ATTACH]

This might surprise you too. Critics opinions are just as subjective as mine (or yours) so just valid or invalid in any others. Man, you're determined to prove you're opinion is the right one I bet you think you're some judge of Objective Truth or something. LOL
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 05:53:59 PM by CarlD. »
"I once heard an evolutionary biologist talk about how violent simians are; they are horrifically violent. He then went on to add that he was really hopeful about humanity because "we're monkeys who manage *not* to kill each other most of the time.""

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GeekyBugle

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« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2019, 06:04:36 PM »
Quote from: CarlD.;1111630
This might surprise you too. Critics opinions are just as subjective as mine (or yours) so just valid or invalid in any others. Man, you're determined to prove you're opinion is the right one I bet you think you're some judge of Objective Truth or something. LOL

Yep, you're a shill, no I never said my subjective opinion was the one truth, neither have I said you must like/hate X or else you're a wacist. You're a shill because the actions you take (Praising something and anybody who doesn't like it is a bad person)

But seems like my subjective opinion is shared by most people, and since the shills have proven they will push for/against stuff for ideological reasons nobody takes their opinions seriously anymore.

Now go back to being a good shill and try to convince people that they must like this shitty show or else they are wacists.
Quote from: Rhedyn

Here is why this forum tends to be so stupid. Many people here think Joe Biden is "The Left", when he is actually Far Right and every US republican is just an idiot.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.”

― George Orwell

CarlD.

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« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2019, 06:30:49 PM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1111633
Yep, you're a shill, no I never said my subjective opinion was the one truth, neither have I said you must like/hate X or else you're a wacist. You're a shill because the actions you take (Praising something and anybody who doesn't like it is a bad person)

Are you arguing with voices in your head?

What hell are you even talking about? I never said any of that. You accused me thinking I was arbiter of Objective Truth... because I didn't agree with you and didn't understand some label you slapped on a perfectly fine (IMHO). I didn't say you must like or hate anything I just can't think of any good reason for throwing around titles like "soulsista". Its if I referred to a character as Redneck for no seeming reason they're white. It would bear explanation and wouldn't be good optic.

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But seems like my subjective opinion is shared by most people, and since the shills have proven they will push for/against stuff for ideological reasons nobody takes their opinions seriously anymore.

*shrug* I don't base my opinions of their popularity.  Do you get a dollar if allot of people agree with you or something?

Allot of people thought Vanilla Ice was a great rapper. I think he sucks. I didn't say people that didn't like the show were wacists, Elmer. or even racists. I didn't see why people that didn't like 'race/gender" swapping had complaints about it as it gives them what they allegedly wanted: Original characters not adulterated ones. I'm not unsympathetic to the position I just doesn't bug me much.

You think the show is shitty? Great. I don't. I still don't what calling her a "soulsista" was supposed to be about though.

Does this  crap you spew actually make sense in your head or do you read it later when the Rage high burns off and wonder "WTF was I thinking?" but pride won't let you delete it?

Or do you just love playing poor victim dude in picked internet fights too much to stop yourself?

I guess it helps pass the time when you aren't reading all those shitty comics or watching those shitty shows...

And its adorable.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 08:25:53 PM by CarlD. »
"I once heard an evolutionary biologist talk about how violent simians are; they are horrifically violent. He then went on to add that he was really hopeful about humanity because "we're monkeys who manage *not* to kill each other most of the time.""

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CarlD.

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« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2019, 08:26:26 PM »
Quote from: Kiero;1111430
So no comparison to The Boys, then?


If I had to rank them, after this 1 episode, I think I like The Boys a little more. I went into it with admittedly low expectations and pleasantly surprised as generally dislike Ennis and enjoy Alan Moore. Watchmen was one of my fave graphic novels and I've long been curious what a post "watchmen" world might be like. So far, this show's depiction interests me and seems to echo Moore tone wise.

Quote from: Omega;1111508
Isnt she the daughter of one of the black heroes who was killed by bigots? If yes then she might be appropriate if the show is set after the movie? New and old heroes stepping up again?


Her background, what's hinted at, may be similar to that though perhaps a little stranger or more convoluted at least.

Quote from: Omega;1111511
er... small note... Aside from Dr Manhattan, and possibly Ozymandias, virtually none of the heroes in that setting actually have powers. It is more a deconstruction of street level pulp heroes at that point.

And Moore seems to have wanted mostly to deconstruct Ditko's Randivistic black and white moral code heroes since quite a few are based off various Ditko creations. The Question and Blue Beetle obviously. Captain Atom and Nightshade as well I believe?


That's one way I think the show echoes the original. There are strong shades of grey particularly in the ways the police have had to adapt, some of which seem dystopian.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1111513
I just watched the first episode. I doubt I'll watch any further. Nothing really pulled me in--not the characters, the visuals, the action--nothing. Whatever story they're trying to tell just isn't for me.


I felt pretty much the opposite. It really grabbed me and I wonder where its headed. But different strokes and all that.  Allot of people liked Rogue One and really didn't care for it.
"I once heard an evolutionary biologist talk about how violent simians are; they are horrifically violent. He then went on to add that he was really hopeful about humanity because "we're monkeys who manage *not* to kill each other most of the time.""

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CarlD.

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« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2019, 05:21:02 PM »
Before I forget I'd like to talk about some issues that were brought up here and elsewhere concerning the series premise now that I've gotten a look at the actual show.

Ratman_TF brought it up here though I've heard it mentioned elsewhere

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1111423
Watchmen was one of those stories that's told without much room for adding stuff without turning it into a farce.


I can understand that viewpoint; somethings are classics and "complete" as they stand. There's nothing much added to the Mona Lisa repainting her except as a cat-girl (Unless you're really into cat-girls).

The series takes with, IMO,  wise path or not really adding or changing the original story. It uses the same setting, about 30 years later, extrapolating an alternate history based on the divergent one began in the original story. While there are ties in in the narrative (Some Easter eggs and call back like the visual composition after Red Knight beats information out a subject than points back to the scene after Rorschach killed Big Figure, Looking Glass' surreal mask particularly the scene where he has it partially rolled up to eat and how the cos refer to their mask as their 'face')

There's hints of more direct tie ins like the police using the Owl flyer (or something very much like it), 7th Calvary terrorists based using a version of Rorschach's journal writings as part of their spiel and crude versions of his mask, the bizarre storms that are thought to be either more alien incursions or a hoax pulled off by the government. There may even be a tie between the main character and another, older man that hints at having the unusual longevity and vigor The Comedian seemed to have.  It didn't strike me as over done or farcical. Obviously tolerance is going to vary and if you're opinion is that Watchman was better left alone then obviously its not going to work for you. My feelings tend to vary from work to works.

Related to that viewpoint is the idea that the Watchmen story is best left with the ambivalent ending it has. Whatever happens next is up to the viewer. Again, I can see that outlook. That does appear to be authorial intent. But I've always been intrigued by the idea of the world after the graphic novel/comics. I guess I'm just part of the target audience, but everyone isn't.
"I once heard an evolutionary biologist talk about how violent simians are; they are horrifically violent. He then went on to add that he was really hopeful about humanity because "we're monkeys who manage *not* to kill each other most of the time.""

Libertarianism: All the Freedom money can buy

Omega

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« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2019, 10:08:23 PM »
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1111556
Comedian doesn't seem to get old and seems stronger than humanly possible. So that makes 3 out of six, since you can't argue that being able to dodge bullets isn't indicative of some superpower. Tell me again about how virtually none of the heroes has superpowers?


Comedian seems to be aging in the comics and movie. And just comes across as very fit. Try again please.

Kael

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« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2019, 02:39:19 PM »
Quote from: Omega;1111849
Comedian seems to be aging in the comics and movie. And just comes across as very fit. Try again please.

The book mentions repeatedly that The Comedian was the youngest member of the Minutemen. That's why he's not as old as everyone else. Also, The Comedian's superpowers were so amazing that he was thrown out a window to his death and stabbed in the face by a pregnant woman with a broken bottle.

Yeah, The Comedian had no superpowers.

CarlD.

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« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2019, 05:00:06 PM »
Quote from: Kael;1111913
The book mentions repeatedly that The Comedian was the youngest member of the Minutemen. That's why he's not as old as everyone else. Also, The Comedian's superpowers were so amazing that he was thrown out a window to his death and stabbed in the face by a pregnant woman with a broken bottle.

Yeah, The Comedian had no superpowers.

Wasn't one of Ozymandias issues with The Comedian that he was one of the few people that he defeated him HTH combat? He might have been a normal, but he was a badass.

I admit I got the impression was was something special about him too but looking back that impression came more from the film than the graphic novel which could be chalked up to cinematic licence.
"I once heard an evolutionary biologist talk about how violent simians are; they are horrifically violent. He then went on to add that he was really hopeful about humanity because "we're monkeys who manage *not* to kill each other most of the time.""

Libertarianism: All the Freedom money can buy

jhkim

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« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2019, 07:29:40 PM »
Quote from: CarlD.;1111932
Wasn't one of Ozymandias issues with The Comedian that he was one of the few people that he defeated him HTH combat? He might have been a normal, but he was a badass.

I admit I got the impression was was something special about him too but looking back that impression came more from the film than the graphic novel which could be chalked up to cinematic licence.
My impression from the comic was that he was the top of the heap among the normal humans -- but he was completely out of Ozymandias' league, just as Ozymandias was completely out of Doctor Manhattan's league.

HappyDaze

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« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2019, 09:15:57 PM »
Quote from: CarlD.;1111932

I admit I got the impression was was something special about him too but looking back that impression came more from the film than the graphic novel which could be chalked up to cinematic licence.

The film made all of the "non-powered" characters act at low-superhuman capabilities.

HappyDaze

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« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2019, 09:18:58 PM »
Quote from: jhkim;1111952
My impression from the comic was that he was the top of the heap among the normal humans -- but he was completely out of Ozymandias' league, just as Ozymandias was completely out of Doctor Manhattan's league.


It was an upset victory by an underdog; Ozy lost to the Comedian once early in Ozy's career because he underestimated the Comedian and failed to accurately predict his moves, but the Comedian was certainly not "completely out of Ozy's league."

CarlD.

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« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2019, 10:04:05 PM »
Quote from: HappyDaze;1111963
It was an upset victory by an underdog; Ozy lost to the Comedian once early in Ozy's career because he underestimated the Comedian and failed to accurately predict his moves, but the Comedian was certainly not "completely out of Ozy's league."

Ah, thanks, I'm glad I wasn't remembering that totally wrong. That lose really seemed to stick in Oz's craw.
"I once heard an evolutionary biologist talk about how violent simians are; they are horrifically violent. He then went on to add that he was really hopeful about humanity because "we're monkeys who manage *not* to kill each other most of the time.""

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Spinachcat

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« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2019, 10:33:25 PM »
I don't remember a Black vs. White hate narrative in the original Watchman comics. Maybe I forgot as I haven't read the originals in a couple decades.

I'm cool with the idea of a Watchmen 2: Electric Boogaloo, but the trailer made it clear HBO just wanted something divisive and woke. Hopefully they'll take a bath on the money loss.

But hey, we can't promote more racial and cultural division in the USA without Hollywood's assistance! Gotta stir up that tasty hate!