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Author Topic: Goodbye Levi  (Read 5197 times)

RPGPundit

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Goodbye Levi
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2007, 06:48:41 PM »
Quote from: jeff37923
I hate to slow down a perfectly good knee-jerk in progress, but Levi decided to leave a forum (which is something that people do from time to time as a personal choice). So why is this now a crusade to have Pundit change his posting style on the man's own fucking forum?

So you're tired of Swine commentary, don't read it or go somewhere else. If you don't like what is going on in this place, then why do you come here? I mean, really people, get a grip. I've noticed enough derision about this place from other forums, but Moderators and Admins of those other forums keep coming here to lurk. To me, that means that something is being done right on this forum.

Get off Pundit's back. The very fact that people can question his judgement in such a derogatory manner on the guy's own forum without getting banned should demonstrate that he's not the ogre detractors would like him to be.


Thanks Jeff!

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David R

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Goodbye Levi
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2007, 06:49:34 PM »
Quote from: James J Skach

You whiners and bitchers have do two things:
1) ignore the fucking Pundit if you don't like his screed.
2) see #1.


Who exactly are the whiners or bitchers ?

Regards,
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Goodbye Levi
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2007, 06:49:54 PM »
Quote from: C.W.Richeson

I feel like the site used to be a refuge for anyone who wanted it to come talk about RPGs and today it's more of a place for those who hate those other gaming sites.  Some of that was always here, it just seems more pronounced now.


Well, I think that's only because certain people keep claiming that's all that goes on here. That's bullshit. As Kyle pointed out, maybe 1 in 30 threads have anything to do with that sort of thing.

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David R

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Goodbye Levi
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2007, 06:59:33 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit
Well, I think that's only because certain people keep claiming that's all that goes on here. That's bullshit. As Kyle pointed out, maybe 1 in 30 threads have anything to do with that sort of thing.



Not exactly. He goes further then just this and he adds that 1 in 30 is not good esp when dealing with people's perception of this place.

Regards,
David R

Kyle Aaron

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Goodbye Levi
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2007, 08:00:46 PM »
Quote from: TonyLB
I'm also not at all happy with some of the responses I've seen to it ... especially Kyle's (a.k.a. JimBob's) immediate "Don't be a cocksmock!" response and consistent pattern of attributing weakness and malice to Levi rather than accepting the decision as a a difference of opinion.
I didn't say he was malicious. Where did I say that? Levi has about as much malice as your average startled puppy.

I did say he should just tell RPGPundit to go fuck himself, or ignore him. There are a thousand other posters here. If one of them annoys you, then there are a heap of others you can read who won't. You don't throw out the whole bag of dice because one has the numbers rubbed off.

Quote from: TonyLB
I think that you're very comfortable with the idea that Pundit isn't making any impact on people ... because he doesn't make any impact on you, and so you figure everyone else should just choose to feel the same way.
I didn't say he didn't make an impact on people, or on me. Remember when I had a go at RPGPundit for driving away Cessna?

I said we should pay no attention to posters who annoyed us, or we should tell them to wind their heads in. Many times I have said that this Swine War bollocks discourages new posters. I've also asked, "but how many new posters do we want? When is it enough?"

Quote from: TonyLB
It looks an awful lot like you're trying to demonize Levi, rather than question that notion.
Again, you're not reading what I'm writing, or only reading part of it.

RPGPundit should turn the volume down on his rants, AND posters should toughen up, and give it back to him equally, or better yet pay him no mind. We all need to change for the better.
Quote from: TonyLB
folks have privately emailed me to talk about the site.  Several of those have, as part of their talking, expressed their intention never to visit again.  Levi's just the first to do so in the public eye.
And people quit rpg.net, and Animalball, and SJGames, and story-games, and the Forge, and so on - yet all those sites live on.

Forums lose and gain posters all the time. What's important is that they have enough active posters who post interesting, useful and funny stuff. This or that poster is not important.

Yes, that means that RPGPundit as an individual poster is not important to the site as a whole. But it means that Levi isn't important either. Nor me, nor TonyLB, nor anyone else. If any of us leave for good, others come and replace us, and the site goes on.

For my part, I will miss Levi's contributions to the site. His posts are interesting, useful and sometimes funny. You know how you can hit "New Posts" and then you glance down and see the name of the person who's most recently posted to a thread? Sometimes you see a name and say, "oh, that guy. Yeah well I can look at it another time, not worth a click that guy." And sometimes you see a name and say, "ooh! I wonder what that one has to say." Levi's one of the second group for me, and I think for many other posters.
Quote from: RPGPundit
I mean, one possible solution to this would be that, outside of my own forum, I would not go on anti-swine rants spontaneously; and in exchange, outside my own forum, all discussion of Swine Topics and Jargon (including any discussion of the Forge, GNS, Storygaming, etc) would be forbidden. But I don't think anyone really wants to go that route.
I'd be delighted to go that route. It's called "putting threads into the right subforum." GNS belongs in the Game Design subforum, US domestic politics belongs in Off Topic, Amber belongs in the Amber subforum, and the Swine War belongs in RPGPundit's subforum.

Of course there are always going to be passing mentions of this or that, so what. But if a thread begins as or turns into one mainly about topic X, it should be put into the subforum of topic X.
Quote from: RGPundit
In the end, I just think that vigorous debate is the price of freedom, and anyone who doesn't like that kind of vigorous debate (and lacks the discrimination to be able to just ignore it) should just realize this might not be the site for them.
There's vigorous debate, and then there's ranting and raving. And better than debate is discussion. Discussion lets us understand people, debate just lets us try to smash someone down. Even a Swine Warrior should want discussion, becase "know thy enemy, and win one hundred battles". If you discuss and know your enemy, then you can keep your attacks for their weak points and weak times. That's more effective than constant random bombardment, especially since the bombardment is causing friendly fire casualties.

Turn the volume down. That's my sincere request. Just keep the topics in their right subforums. Keep the attacks for when they matter.

But at the same time, people should toughen up a bit. As soon as you log onto the internet, you are bound to see something that annoys, offends or disturbs you. When it comes to a discussion forum, remember that one poster remains one poster. So that means that in the scheme of things, RPGPundit is not that important - but neither are any of us. The site goes on, with lively discussions.
Quote from: David R
He goes further then just this and he adds that 1 in 30 is not good esp when dealing with people's perception of this place.
And I go further than that, still, and say that the cure for this is to hope that the one will be put in the right subforum, or better yet never get written - but to post lots of threads.

I remember a while back RPGPundit mentioned that one of the things he thought was an indicator of the forum being active enough to be proud of was that he could look at the Roleplaying subforum, and see all the threads bolded and new, all with activity from today. We can take that a step further again and say that at least half of them should be new threads, threads started today.

I think I could probably find some topic to start a thread on each day. That's been my idea with Saturday Subpoena and the coming Free PDF Friday. I'm trying to think of a few others like that. It's a bit lame and silly but it keeps things lively, keeps people reading, and gives them something to respond to. And I hope it'll provoke further threads as topics spin off.

Start threads on things which interest you, and which will interest others. Create content. Forget about whoever's in charge. Write stuff. This swamps the stuff you dislike, and produces more good content which attracts new members. You think that Poster X scares people off? Okay then, create so many new threads that people have to go looking for Poster X's rants.

This is exactly what I said to people "leaving rpg.net in protest" at my banning, or the tone of the place, or whatever. A forum is its threads its content, what you make it. Not what the admins and mods make it.

Post threads about stuff which interests you, and which you think will create interesting discussions. Reply to other people's threads. Contribute, participate.
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James J Skach

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Goodbye Levi
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2007, 08:32:24 PM »
Quote from: Kyle Aaron
Levi has about as much malice as your average startled puppy.

Hehehe...startled puppy...that's perfect.  He's like Tony with a spine.

Ease up Tony, I kid.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron
I did say he should just tell RPGPundit to go fuck himself, or ignore him. There are a thousand other posters here. If one of them annoys you, then there are a heap of others you can read who won't. You don't throw out the whole bag of dice because one has the numbers rubbed off.

Hell, Kyle bugs the hell out of me (and I'd be surprised if the feeling is not mutual - oh wait, I just left open a chance for a three page dissertation on why Kyle isn't annoyed by me...damn), and I still read what he has to say because it's bound to be interesting - especially when it's about gaming.

It's called separating the wheat from the chaff, folks.
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Dr Rotwang!

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Goodbye Levi
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2007, 08:38:57 PM »
Quote from: Mcrow
I have to be honest and say that Pundit's BS is on the verge of making me want to leave the site as well. :(
I just do with him what I did with Nox.

Ironic, huh?
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Ian Absentia

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Goodbye Levi
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2007, 08:40:32 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit
Yeah really. I'm no longer even bothering to track the stats of this site on a regular basis, because its clear that this site continues to have a regular thriving growth. There's been no point where there's been any "flagging" of stats. I post whenever and whatever I'm in the mood for posting, and that's it.
Fine.  I'll take you at your word that you're not currently watching the metrics.  But the distinct impression I have is still that you trundle out the imaginary war schtick when you feel like stirring up a bit of controversy.  Keeps the place on its toes, doesn't it?

You know, I have to admit something, both publically and to myself.  I'm projecting my own desires onto your project.  I'm one of the people I described as a "dissenter" from RPG.net -- I wasn't banned, but I was increasingly on the wrong side of shifting goalposts.  What I came looking for here was basically RPG.net without the moderation.  I think that's what a lot of people have come looking for here over the last year.  That's not your mission, though.  And that really makes it my problem, not yours.  Because, like my dissatisfaction with RPG.net a year ago, what I want now is theRPGsite without an imaginary war.

Yes, yes, I can just ignore any of the threads started by you or any of The Usual Suspects (haw! :haw: ), but that leads to the same complaint that people have of going to RPG.net and having to wade through threads that start with "[Exalted]".  Another problem with just ignoring you is that I stand a chance of missing something good when you're not making shit up about "Swine" and how they're out to pollute my precious bodily fluids.  I happily dropped all pretense of malice when I responded to your Pendragon actual play thread.

Enh.  I guess I'm on that same fence Levi'd been on for a while.  I need to figure out if the good that I can suss out of this site and its largely good and positive membership outweighs the visceral irritation I derive from the more vocal horseshit that lies at the very mission statement (if there is one) of theRPGsite.

!i!

droog

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Goodbye Levi
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2007, 08:43:21 PM »
I want you all to know that I'm enjoying this thread hugely.

Oh, and Levi is a big girl's blouse.
The past lives on in your front room
The poor still weak the rich still rule
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The books at home

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TonyLB

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Goodbye Levi
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2007, 08:44:16 PM »
Quote from: Kyle Aaron
Again, you're not reading what I'm writing, or only reading part of it.

RPGPundit should turn the volume down on his rants, AND posters should toughen up, and give it back to him equally, or better yet pay him no mind. We all need to change for the better.
Fair enough.  I misread you, and I apologize.  I'm very glad to discover that I was wrong.
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Kyle Aaron

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Goodbye Levi
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2007, 08:44:28 PM »
Ian, the posters here and a certain thread inspired you to write Mariner, and continue to inspire you to complete it.

So you have to stay at least until you finish that project. You owe us. :p
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Goodbye Levi
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2007, 08:44:50 PM »
Quote from: droog
I want you all to know that I'm enjoying this thread hugely.

Oh, and Levi is a big girl's blouse.
A peasant one?  Those are fetching, actually.  Check out Labyrinth, man.
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David R

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Goodbye Levi
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2007, 08:47:34 PM »
Quote from: Kyle Aaron

And I go further than that, ...


You always do...like the Catholic school girls I knew when I was younger :D ( Joke people...joke)

Quote
Post threads about stuff which interests you, and which you think will create interesting discussions. Reply to other people's threads. Contribute, participate.


Agreed.

Regards,
David R

RPGPundit

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Goodbye Levi
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2007, 08:57:00 PM »
Quote from: Kyle Aaron

I remember a while back RPGPundit mentioned that one of the things he thought was an indicator of the forum being active enough to be proud of was that he could look at the Roleplaying subforum, and see all the threads bolded and new, all with activity from today. We can take that a step further again and say that at least half of them should be new threads, threads started today.

I think I could probably find some topic to start a thread on each day. That's been my idea with Saturday Subpoena and the coming Free PDF Friday. I'm trying to think of a few others like that. It's a bit lame and silly but it keeps things lively, keeps people reading, and gives them something to respond to. And I hope it'll provoke further threads as topics spin off.


I think this is an absolutely excellent idea, and that if just a few of the more full-time posters on this site were dedicated to starting a new thread even every couple of days, the site activity would increase considerably!

Quote

Start threads on things which interest you, and which will interest others. Create content. Forget about whoever's in charge. Write stuff. This swamps the stuff you dislike, and produces more good content which attracts new members. You think that Poster X scares people off? Okay then, create so many new threads that people have to go looking for Poster X's rants.


As long as said new threads are worth a damn, this is great advice, that I wish people would take.

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Kyle Aaron

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Goodbye Levi
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2007, 09:17:11 PM »
Okay, it's time for the Forum Addict's Manifesto.
  • Aim - to have interesting, useful and funny conversations.
  • One thread a week. Pick a day each week, and start a new thread on that day. It's not a lot for you, but if just 100 of the posters do that, then that's the front page having half its threads entirely new every day.
  • Keep it brief, but not too brief. Begin with a paragraph - not more than about five lines - of something you think, or something you've noticed, or something you're wondering about. But one line doesn't really cut it. You have to give them enough to chew on, but not more than they can chew.
  • Tie it to other threads. If it was prompted by some other thread, link to it in that first post. This keeps people clicking around and reading and responding and keeps threads lively. It also gives credit to other threads, and makes people feel good about having started them.
  • End with a question. Even if it's just "what do you lot think about that?" Make it open-ended, not just a yes/no answer required. Invite input.
  • Leave it for ten posts. The thread, the whole forum - it ain't your blog. If it's not interesting enough to get at least ten responses, it deserves to die. Save your responses to those first ten for the eleventh. Let what they're saying digest for a bit. After your next response, leave it for another ten posts. Don't turn the thread into just you and one other poster knocking back and forth like ping-pong.
  • Stick to the topic of the original post. A ramble can be fun for you, but is a sure way of making sure the thread drifts into irrelevant bullshit, or turns nasty. If someone else is consistently off-topic or rambling, just pay them no mind, and respond to whatever was said that's on-topic. If there's something you absolutely must discuss, then start a new thread! Or suggest that the other poster start a new thread. Return to (1).
  • Respond to other's threads. Again, it's not your blog. It's a group discussion. This is another time when you should link to other threads if you can. "Actually this was discussed here, and they said..."
  • After 100 posts, it's fair game. After 100 posts, nine times out of ten all the genuinely interesting, useful and funny things that can be said about that particular topic have been said. The thread has either drifted so much it should have spawned five other threads by now, or else it's flamed up into a couple of posters attacking each-other. Plus almost nobody will read the first 100 posts before reading to post #231. Drama! Confusion! Flames! Boredom. So post whatever you like after 100 replies have been put there, but better to return to (1).
What do you lot reckon?

(I think #3 will be hardest for me!)
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