Quote from: gleichman;235484Good sarcasm can earn a few bucks, but overwrought whiney Sarcasm is tough to give away even free.

Having lived in Japan, where the police get a 92% confession rate, I'm well aware that the police can coerce confessions from innocent people (often overlooked, along with how the Japanese execute people, by progressives who admire the Japanese crime rate because of Japanese gun control) and I'm also well aware that many police departments and prosecutors like the Miranda warnings because the warning insulates them from having to defend the "totality of the circumstances" on a case-by-case basis.  It's an easy enough point to argue but, predictably, nobody even bothered.

Of course post-Miranda ruling Rhode Island v. Innis says that spontaneous statements made by a defendant in custody who has not been given the Miranda warning are admissible so long as they weren't in response to police questioning and New York v. Quarles created a public safety exception, but clearly I'm wildly out of the mainstream in my opinion.

A wonderful bit of irony, courtesy of Wikipedia:

   Miranda was retried, and this time the prosecution did not use the confession but called witnesses and used other evidence. Miranda was convicted, and he served 11 years. After his release, he returned to his old neighborhood and made a modest living autographing police officers' "Miranda cards" (containing the text of the warning, for reading to arrestees). He was killed in a bar fight on January 31, 1976. The police arrested a suspect, who exercised his right to remain silent, and the case was never solved.

Quote from: John Morrow;235486The police arrested a suspect, who exercised his right to remain silent, and the case was never solved.

In one of my earliest classes dealing with constitutional law, we had to do an oral presentation on a landmark case, and I choose Miranda.  I ended the report by bringing up this little tidbit.

Got a HUGE laugh.

I'm willing to bet there was a whole lot of "good riddance to bad rubbish" involved in the "investigation" of the death.

Quote from: Jackalope;235492I'm willing to bet there was a whole lot of "good riddance to bad rubbish" involved in the "investigation" of the death.

According to Wikipedia, the suspect fled to Mexico.  Yes, I know there are bad and crooked police officers but I think the presumption of innocence should be applied to them, too.

Quote from: John Morrow;235486(often overlooked, along with how the Japanese execute people, by progressives who admire the Japanese crime rate because of Japanese gun control)

Wow, they execute around thirty times the number of people we do after adjusting for population. Impressive.

And no one seems to think this may have a impact on their crime rates...

Quote from: gleichman;235503Wow, they execute around thirty times the number of people we do after adjusting for population. Impressive.

You also need to look at how they execute their criminals.  For example:

   The prisoners, their family members, or their counsels will never be informed in advance of an execution. On the morning of the execution, prisoners will be called suddenly and informed that "the sentence of execution will now be carried out," and will be brought to the execution chamber.

[...]

   Then they are handcuffed from behind, blindfolded, and brought onto the hanging place, whose floor is split in two. They are tied up while on their knees to prevent wounding the body in case they struggle. At the same time the hanging rope is placed around the prisoner's neck.

At a signal, the floor splits into two, and prisoners fall into the opening. Since the length of the rope has been adjusted in advance to take account of the height of prisoners, they continue cramping until their death, suspended in the air some 15 centimeters above the underground floor.

In the underground room, a doctor is standing by to take the prisoner's pulse and listen for a heartbeat. It is said that 15 to 20 minutes are needed to die.

Somehow, this all manages to escape attention when critics of the American justice system single out the United States as being unique among developed nations in having the death penalty.

Quote from: gleichman;235503And no one seems to think this may have a impact on their crime rates...

Nope, nor the confession and conviction rate.  Just the gun control.

Quote from: JDCorley;235462We were here to see it.

I enjoyed it.

I'm also a dirty moral relativist that's mostly agreeing with Jackalope, here.

So, we really have all kinds at therpgsite.

Quote from: Thanatos02;235517I'm also a dirty moral relativist that's mostly agreeing with Jackalope, here.

Unfortunately, Jackalope was arguing that I was the moral relativist.

Quote from: John Morrow;235516Nope, nor the confession and conviction rate.  Just the gun control.

I've never even heard this brought up by the anti-gun control people until now.

I'm rather stunned, and embarrassed not to have known this myself.