"One bizarre shithole after another" is a fairly good description of the setting.  If that style doesn't appeal, it's not for you.

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;647817"One bizarre shithole after another" is a fairly good description of the setting.  If that style doesn't appeal, it's not for you.

JG

I think the problem is more that the first 3 books focus 90% on the War of the Roses/France during 100 years war History Expy, and only in the last 2 ones, which are far too riddled with unnecessary narrations, Martin remembered that there were also supposed to be like, classic fantasy elements. There's a lot of really interesting stuff there (Maesters' fight against Magic, White Walkers, that whole Rhollor bit, Valeria itself) that got very undeserving coverage.

First 3 books were really good. It's really the last 2 ones that are....meh. I admit though  that I liked Feast for the Crows, because it was a medieval soap opera. And really - tits and incest are only edgy if you are 80.

Yesterday's episode was excellent.

Yeah, they need to work on tightening up the formations and motions of the Unsullied though, I'd have expected a more 300 level of synchronisation. Other than that, rockin'!

Quote from: Rincewind1;647936I think the problem is more that the first 3 books focus 90% on the War of the Roses/France during 100 years war History Expy, and only in the last 2 ones, which are far too riddled with unnecessary narrations, Martin remembered that there were also supposed to be like, classic fantasy elements. There's a lot of really interesting stuff there (Maesters' fight against Magic, White Walkers, that whole Rhollor bit, Valeria itself) that got very undeserving coverage.

First 3 books were really good. It's really the last 2 ones that are....meh. I admit though  that I liked Feast for the Crows, because it was a medieval soap opera. And really - tits and incest are only edgy if you are 80.

Some of that is deliberate.  You have to look to see where it's spelled out, but basically the power of magic is tied to the existence of dragons, and one reason the "classic fantasy elements" are only now coming in is that the dragons weren't reborn until the end of the first book.

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;648141Some of that is deliberate.  You have to look to see where it's spelled out, but basically the power of magic is tied to the existence of dragons, and one reason the "classic fantasy elements" are only now coming in is that the dragons weren't reborn until the end of the first book.

JG

I am well aware of that. It's just that there seems to be quite a few eggs that suddenly appear in the basket, and they'd be so much better if they were in the basket from the second book onwards, so to speak.

Also, Theon Greyjoy better make that escape. I really like that scoundrel, and he got shafted hard in the books.

Quote from: Rincewind1;648144I am well aware of that. It's just that there seems to be quite a few eggs that suddenly appear in the basket, and they'd be so much better if they were in the basket from the second book onwards, so to speak.

Also, Theon Greyjoy better make that escape. I really like that scoundrel, and he got shafted hard in the books.

As far as I'm concerned he deserved what he got at least as much as Jaime.

JG

Quote from: James Gillen;648359As far as I'm concerned he deserved what he got at least as much as Jaime.

JG

Well, that's what makes him my favourite character - he is genuinely interesting, because I can somewhat relate to the dilemma he was stuck in. A classic tale of a man torn between 2 worlds, unwanted in the one he desires, and not desiring the one he is wanted within.

I think the transition of Jaime was one of the more interesting plots of 4th book.

Let's face it, when someone like Jaime Lannister isn't even in the most unpleasant 25% of the characters, it's a fucked-up place.

Really liked the first 2 books, the 3rd started the long slide into misery porn and self-parody that 4&5 became. Dunno if the series will do likewise.

Quote from: One Horse Town;648884Let's face it, when someone like Jaime Lannister isn't even in the most unpleasant 25% of the characters, it's a fucked-up place.

Really liked the first 2 books, the 3rd started the long slide into misery porn and self-parody that 4&5 became. Dunno if the series will do likewise.

3 was still good, except Abandon All Hope Ye Who... parts.

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6880313/game-of-thrones-wish-fulfillment

I think the strength of it is that he characters are so believable.
Jaime is the classic. He kills a king who is an evil arogant insane madman who burns kids and all sorts but in doing so picks up the title kingslayer and oathbreaker. Had Ned done it he would have been a hero but net result he is cast as a villain.
He loves his sister and protects her even trying to kill Bran to protect her.
Now you might say that is viallanous, but his is prepared to kill for what he loves so there are two takes on it.

Really I don't think jaime is bad at all.

Books 4 and 5 do need an editor though. I think the TV show will make a better fist of that as they will have to cut a lot of the extra stuff.

What is interesting is what will happen to very popular characters. Bron on the TV show is very popular. Do they keep Bron as a companion for Tyrion when he flees Kings landing or do they bring in all the other guys who later get killed by a dragon.
They kept Ros and use her like a cypher for various hos. Bron could work the same for fighting man.
The Shae-Tyrion arc is interesting as well. In the book for whatever reason she betrays him. I can't see that working in the TV show I think Tywin will hang her and that will be what triggers Tyrion to kill him.

Quote from: jibbajibba;649090Books 4 and 5 do need an editor though. I think the TV show will make a better fist of that as they will have to cut a lot of the extra stuff.

I suspect 4 and 5 will be made into 1 season, which is good in my books, as they depict actions that happen somewhat simultaneously for the most part, and the pacing is not too quick neither.

edit:

I feel that rather than writing several books in sequence with several different sets of characters and storylines, he should have written several books, each focusing on a bunch of characters and their stories. The Stark story, the Lannister story, etc.

Then it would not all be so fucking confusing and muddled.

Overall, his books suffer from Successful Authour Syndrome. When you're a new authour, the editors are ruthless and make you cut out the bullshit. When you're successful, nobody is allowed to tell you to shut up, so they let you blather on, this is why the books get longer and longer in these series, and the trilogy becomes seven books, etc.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;649360Overall, his books suffer from Successful Authour Syndrome. When you're a new authour, the editors are ruthless and make you cut out the bullshit. When you're successful, nobody is allowed to tell you to shut up, so they let you blather on, this is why the books get longer and longer in these series, and the trilogy becomes seven books, etc.

Agreed.

I certainly wasn't expecting that to happen to the Nights Watch!

Although I have to wonder (perhaps it's explained later) why they ever tolerate Craster at all and not just stab him and take his stuff.