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Author Topic: Fuck It And Good Night  (Read 8487 times)

jeff37923

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Fuck It And Good Night
« on: September 11, 2007, 11:29:22 am »
With the entire Poison'd debate/debacle, I'm just annoyingly tired now. Threw in the towel on TBP. Seen crap in this whole discussion that truely disturbs me and I wonder what has happened to common sense in gamers anymore.

Remember the scene in Sin City where Marv is talking to the bishop (played by Rutger Hauer) and he is getting told by the bishop about how angelic the cannibal boy was, and Marv just responds with "I think its mighty weird to be eatin' people." Simple, direct, and it gets to the heart on the matter without any pretentious crap about cool the cannibal boy was getting in the way.

Well, that's how I'm feeling. No matter how you slice it, its still baloney. Sick shit is still sick shit no matter if its labelled artistic expression or not.

And even if its considered OK by the masses, then its still not OK by me and I wouldn't want that kind of crap play in or near any game I was running or playing. Whatever label that makes me, I can't get myself to really care - because I can only be who I am and how I feel about this crap.

It just bugs me.

Koltar

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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2007, 12:25:55 pm »
What bugs me ?  If it was any other type of game or style of game - I think the mods over there would have locked that thread between 15 and 20 pages into it.  Insead we got a 100 page thread on a game that will never make it onto those charts in Comics & Games retailer.

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joewolz

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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2007, 01:18:22 pm »
Jeff, I agree.  In fact the only reason I even read this thread is I thought it wasn't about it.

I'm never again posting to or reading a thread about that fucking game.
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The Yann Waters

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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2007, 04:42:09 pm »
Quote from: Koltar
If it was any other type of game or style of game - I think the mods over there would have locked that thread between 15 and 20 pages into it.
Not really. It's not as though there haven't been earlier threads about PCs committing atrocities (rapes, mass murders, necrophilia) in other RPGs, most of which haven't been threatened with lockdowns either; and as I pointed out over there, there doesn't seem to be anything particularly offensive in Poison'd itself that you couldn't find in, say, WoD. The common opinion over the years has consistently been that the consent of everyone at the table and respecting the boundaries which they don't want crossed are the most important factors when dealing with potentially disturbing topics, and I agree with that. It's all about what the group brings to the game.
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James J Skach

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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2007, 05:23:15 pm »
Quote from: GrimGent
Not really. It's not as though there haven't been earlier threads about PCs committing atrocities (rapes, mass murders, necrophilia) in other RPGs, most of which haven't been threatened with lockdowns either; and as I pointed out over there, there doesn't seem to be anything particularly offensive in Poison'd itself that you couldn't find in, say, WoD. The common opinion over the years has consistently been that the consent of everyone at the table and respecting the boundaries which they don't want crossed are the most important factors when dealing with potentially disturbing topics, and I agree with that. It's all about what the group brings to the game.

Moral relativism at it's finest.

Why is it that people who claim there should not be such an uproar can't leave these threads alone?  I mean, there were a couple of posts and the OP - but you, GrimGent, just couldn't let it go.

If everyone who said they don't care acted like it, would there be 600 post threads?

The common opinion?  Over the years?

Whose common opinion?  Over which years?

I hereby proclaim that common wisdom over many years states that there are lines which, when crossed, mean the group is fucked in the head.

See how that works? You don't believe it any more than I believe your hack claim about "common opinion."

It's an opinion you are not likely to change.  And as much as it might drive pseudoephedrine crazy, it's probably best to just agree to disagree and promise not to game together...
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The Yann Waters

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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2007, 05:39:01 pm »
Quote from: James J Skach
Whose common opinion?  Over which years?
RPGnet's, 2002-present. And I'm not claiming that there's anything admirable or gloriously artistic about the actions described in the AP. What I find ridiculous are the constant claims that Poison'd is a morally bankrupt game from a morally bankrupt designer from a morally bankrupt movement, all on the strength of a snippet from a session. I could understand railing against the players in that individual case, but instead it seems to have triggered a wave of hysteria that's out of all proportion.
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J Arcane

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« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2007, 05:46:26 pm »
Quote
all on the strength of a snippet from a session.


No, on the strength of multiple goddamn actual play reports, and statements direct from the designer.  A designer with a history of making games about getting the players to do fucked up things like worshiping Satan and lynching adulterers.
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James J Skach

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« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2007, 05:47:03 pm »
Quote from: GrimGent
RPGnet's, 2002-present. And I'm not claiming that there's anything admirable or gloriously artistic about the actions described in the AP. What I find ridiculous are the constant claims that Poison'd is a morally bankrupt game from a morally bankrupt designer from a morally bankrupt movement, all on the strength of a snippet from a session. I could understand railing against the players in that individual case, but instead it seems to have triggered a wave of hysteria that's out of all proportion.

You are misinterpreting (assuming you are talking about the original thread here) what was being said.  It's only a morally bankrupt game/designer if you agree with the theory upon which the designer seems to talk about as a significant influence on his work.

If not, then you're absolutely right about condemning the players - no differently than if they were playing D&D or GURPS and had that session. But the minute you blame the players, the cracks begin to appear in GNS/TBM.  And that was the point - that you can't have it both ways.

All of this not helped by the fact that the designer ran one of the games about which session were written - further conflating the issue.
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The Yann Waters

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« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2007, 05:49:46 pm »
Quote from: J Arcane
No, on the strength of multiple goddamn actual play reports, and statements direct from the designer.  A designer with a history of making games about getting the players to do fucked up things like worshiping Satan and lynching adulterers.
I'll be worried when the players start lynching anyone. The PCs killing people for petty reasons or summoning demons, on the other hand? That happens all the time, although I personally never let an act of violence go by without consequences.
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The Yann Waters

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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2007, 05:58:38 pm »
Quote from: James J Skach
You are misinterpreting (assuming you are talking about the original thread here) what was being said.
GNS isn't my concern: as I've said before, the system matters but not as much as the players. And the majority of posters who rushed to condemn the game never struck me as particularly keen on the theories, either, or interested in checking whether their feverish ideas about "rape power-ups" had any basis in reality.
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jeff37923

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« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2007, 06:15:51 pm »
GrimGent, your opinion's your own, but I don't think you get it. That's fine, nothing wrong with that, but you still don't get it.

The Yann Waters

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« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2007, 06:25:58 pm »
Quote from: jeff37923
GrimGent, your opinion's your own, but I don't think you get it. That's fine, nothing wrong with that, but you still don't get it.

Probably not. I certainly don't get why instead of productive discussions such as "What would be the best way to restrict sensitive material during play so as to guarantee player comfort?" or "Should moral degeneration be modelled by game mechanics?" or "Is describing rape acceptable in fiction?" everyone ends up wrapped up in something so... pointless. We all agree that the APs had their disgusting moments. Repeating that over and over again doesn't lead anywhere.
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Aos

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« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2007, 06:35:06 pm »
I disbelieve in this thread.
You are posting in a troll thread.

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jeff37923

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« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2007, 06:39:10 pm »
Quote from: Aos
I disbelieve in this thread.


Poof!

The illusion vanishes.

The Good Assyrian

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« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2007, 06:47:47 pm »
Quote from: jeff37923
Poof!

The illusion vanishes.



If only it were that easy...


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