Quote from: darwalkerp, would you really flush it all and have the ignorance rule supreme?

The only ignorance I've ever experienced has been the ignorance of man relative to the knowledge of other men.  I don't even know if the word ignorance applies to animals or trees.

Quote from: darWould you really kill your best friends children?

Well that's a weird way to look at it, considering that we'd all just disappear at once, so there would be noone left to be sad or miss someone.  Clearly it's a hypothetical situation, but I'm not trying to make anybody suffer or feel pain.  I just want us to all go away if we can't behave.

Quote from: darDo you really have this giddy wet dream of horrific mas murder?

I don't even really know how to answer this.  I like people and I enjoy my life and I love my friends and family.  But most people are idiots and in the aggregate, we are really stupid and destructive (to ourselves and everything around us).  Maybe if I was really given that power, I wouldn't be able to do it as my love for the people around me (and my own specist reflexes) would just be too strong.  But right now, seeing the way we are heading, I see only slow, painful destruction for us and the rest of the world.  My fantasy way would allow the world to go on.  And that is my wet dream, a beautiful planet thriving with diverse, interlocking life cycles.  Sure it wouldn't last forever, but it's life would go on for millenia without us.  This is all getting very philosophical, because it could be that this kind of uber-species evolution is the way of the world and if we were gone, some other species would suddenly start using tools and building stuff and the cycle would begin all over again.  I don't know, but I'd say we've had our chance at the plate and we are pretty close to striking out.

QuoteIf you were true to your words I'd think you would at least further the 'ironic' end of man kind by his own means.

I don't understand what you mean here.

QuoteDo you really think so little of every candle lit in the dark staving off the ignorance that you would destroy it all?

Well if you mean by every candle as a life spirit, than I believe powerfully in every creature's life spirit and when that goes away (as I've seen in animals and humans) it is a profoundly sad and powerful loss.  I'd rather have them all leave at their natural pace.  But we humans are snuffing out so many, at such a fast rate and so unnaturally, that it's no longer fair.  If we're gone, a lot more lives will live, longer and more happily.

But what is all this ignorance you're talking about?  Is that what you think we humans represent?  Some kind of light from a world of ignorant darkness?  Sure, we've created some cool shit for one and other.  But mostly we just seem to kill each other and destroy stuff.  I don't see how one Michelangelo justifies ethnic cleansing in Serbia or the alberta tar sands.

Space Colonies.


- Ed C.

Bruce Dern showed us what happens when radical environmentalists get loose in space colonies.



Not viable, I'm afraid.

Quote from: stu2000Bruce Dern showed us what happens when radical environmentalists get loose in space colonies.

Not viable, I'm afraid.

To be fair, we don't know what happened to the last dome.

And for the record, I'm doing my part - no kids, and no plans for kids, so I won't be leaving behind a legacy of carbon footprints and all that crap when I'm gone. So there.

Quote from: walkerpBut what is all this ignorance you're talking about?  Is that what you think we humans represent?  Some kind of light from a world of ignorant darkness?  Sure, we've created some cool shit for one and other.  But mostly we just seem to kill each other and destroy stuff.  I don't see how one Michelangelo justifies ethnic cleansing in Serbia or the alberta tar sands.

Look at it this way - if global warming really IS man-made - or if we even only play the major role in it -  and we do nothing to stop it, then it'll kill off mankind and the world will re-adjust. Net result; the end of man-made global warming. Yay, planet saved. Then what?

If we do kill off 4/5 of our population and go back to subsistence farming to survive, the environment will maybe recover - and in 5 billion years the sun explodes and we all die.

If we find a way to survive, and maybe even prosper, and save the environment in the meantime - we still die in 5 billion years.

If we survive the death of the sun by expanding into the galaxy and colonizing enough worlds that we survive the death of individual stars - we die when the Milky Way runs out of raw materials to make new stars.

If we survive that to expand into the universe and colonize new galaxies - same thing, we die when THOSE galaxies run out of materials to make new suns.

If somehow we survive all that, then in 15 billion or 100 trillion years, there's either a big crunch or a big rip - and we all die.

Net result, the human race is doomed. Deal with it. In the meantime, give me my steak and 4Runner.

What is that Bruce Dern movie?

Quote from: WerekoalaAs soon as the truth presents itself, that'll be fine. Until then, consensus does not make science - especially when there IS no consensus.

What would it take for you to believe there is a consensus?

Here's a list of organisations that accept human-caused climate change is real and dangerous. And some links to prove it.

The Academies of Science of United States (and  20 other Nations)
                 

• United States
• United Kingdom
• Germany
• Japan
• Canada
• China
• France

• India
• Russia
• Italy
• Australia
• Belgium
• Brazil
• Caribbean

• Indonesia
• Ireland
• Malaysia
• Mexico
• New Zealand
• South Africa
• Switzerland

http://www.nationalacademies.org/includes/G8Statement_Energy_07_May.pdf  
  http://nationalacademies.org/onpi/06072005.pdf  
   http://www.royalsociety.org/displaypagedoc.asp?id=13619  
   http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?RecordID=11676
   
  American Association for the Advancement of Science
  (i.e. The guys who publish the Journal   of Science, The most highly syndicated peer reviewed science   journal in the world)
  http://www.motherjones.com/blue_marble_blog/archives/2007/02/3630_aaas_statement.html  
   
   American Geophysical Union
   (a scientific organization with over 50,000 members,   mostly earth scientists)
   http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/policy/positions/climate_change2008.shtml
   
   United     States Pentagon
   http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2004/02/09/360120/index.htm
   http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903   ...
  http://www.grist.org/pdf/AbruptClimateChange2003.pdf
   
   
   Exxon Mobil (Although one would imagine this is only   because their hand was forced)
   http://www.exxonmobil.com/Corporate/news_speeches_20070213_RWT.aspx  
   http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/14/business/14exxon.html?pagewanted=print  
   http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16593606/  
   
   Even the American Association   of Petroleum Geologists
   http://dpa.aapg.org/gac/statements/climatechange.cfm  
   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZurM7c19ig
   
It's a pretty clear consensus. There are more fucking creationist scientists than there are "climate sceptic" scientists.

Quote from: walkerpWhat is that Bruce Dern movie?

Its called SILENT RUNNING.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Running



 Stock footage of those  spaceships were later re-used on the original '70s "Battlestar Galactica" as the Agro-ships.

Oh cool.  Thanks.  So that's Silent Running.  I've heard it's name but never really knew about it.  I'll have to check that out.

Quote from: walkerpOh cool.  Thanks.  So that's Silent Running.  I've heard it's name but never really knew about it.  I'll have to check that out.

Here on the IMDB:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067756/

It was one of many "low Budget" movies of the early '70s where directors were given budgets of 1 million or less  - and then left alone to do whatever they wanted.


- Ed C.

(Who used to write the Movie Trivia Column for a college newsletter)

Walkerp, is it murder to kill a man nobody cares or knows about while he is in his sleep?

There are probably a few people around like that, probably a few have been killed in a painless fashion. I think it is obviously murder, do you agree?

I don't understand how the idea of killing everybody at once in some magical way would make it different than murder. What particular kind of magical thinking is this?

I do think you are a poseur, you make such an outrageous, edgy claim, then backpedal and put such strictures on it that you would never face the fear of actually having to go through with it. It's a poser's statement. It's bluster and bullshit with no way of it ever possibly being tested.

Whats more, I just bought SW for my kid, he's pretty excited about it. Now I worry about him finding out that the guy who, by second hand, helped turn him onto it, want's him dead.

All of us dead. No one to remember Gary Gygax, or Eric Wujcik, or Einstein, or any one of thousands or millions of others and their deeds and discoveries. You would just throw it all away or nonchalantly state that you would for some fantasy Disney movie.

Wow Dar is it that time of the month? Or did I just not get the memo about the two of you?

Quote from: Serious PaulWow Dar is it that time of the month? Or did I just not get the memo about the two of you?

No, Dar is just taking a stupid statement and demonstrating how stupid it is. Its a process, just sit back and enjoy the process.

Technically and probably morally as well it is murder.  But dude you really need to chill.  I'm getting a little tired of having my own personal philosophy constantly questioned and my character attacked for having such a philosophy.  I'm sorry you think I want to murder your son.  Don't blame Pinnacle for it.

Quote from: darWhats more, I just bought SW for my kid, he's pretty excited about it. Now I worry about him finding out that the guy who, by second hand, helped turn him onto it, want's him dead.

If it's any consolation, I'm sure it's not personal.

QuoteAll of us dead. No one to remember Gary Gygax, or Eric Wujcik, or Einstein, or any one of thousands or millions of others and their deeds and discoveries.

Dude, we're all food for worms.  The intelligent cockroaches that succeed us won't remember any of it.

I struggle with the notion of human population.  I believe there are too many people to be sustained indefinitely by this planet's ecosystem. A nice, gradual decrease in generational repopulation, like what's begun to happen in Europe (arguably as a result of broadbased improvement in living standards), would be nice.  But a sudden, catastrophic die-back as a result of a virulent pandemic seems potentially imminent.  The sudden, radical depopulation seems the most effective means of achieving the desired end, but I'm genuinely concerned that the potential breakdown in society and technology would lead to a general disregard for environmental conservation in favor of simple day-to-day survival.

No, a voluntary die-back is preferable.  And no one needs to swallow a pill or put a gun to anyone's head.  They just need to stop breeding as much. As I mentioned above, the apparent key to getting people to breed less is to raise the general level of affluence -- let them enjoy the fruits of an advanced society without having to worry how many of your children are going to survive to majority.

Anyway, don't sweat it.  Play Savage Worlds with your kid and enjoy it.  A little ways down the road, you'll be dead and won't be able to be bothered by it.  A little farther still, and it'll be your son's turn.  For the life of me, I can't recall what it was that had my great-great grandfather all worked up a few generations back, and my great-great grandson isn't too worried about me, either.

!i!