TheRPGSite

The Lounge => Media and Inspiration => Topic started by: Kyle Aaron on May 05, 2010, 02:38:16 AM

Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Kyle Aaron on May 05, 2010, 02:38:16 AM
You can fit the most dice in one space if they're d4s. It's been proven by science (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100504215932.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Latest+Science+News%29).
   Tetrahedral dice, which have four triangular sides, pack more densely than any other shape yet tested, according to research performed by a collaboration of New York University and Virginia Tech physicists.

The revelation is the result of a series of experiments that involved pouring tetrahedral dice into containers, shaking them, and adding more dice until the containers were completely filled. After adding water to measure the open space between the dice, the researchers confirmed that the tetrahedrons fill roughly 76% of the available space in a large container. Similar experiments with spheres typically only fill containers to about 64% of the total volume.

The researchers were able to get an inside view of the packed tetrahedral dice by imaging the containers with an MRI machine. The images are vital in helping them check and refine their die packing models.

The experiment, which is reported in the May 3 issue of Physical Review Letters, confirms recent calculations predicting efficient packing. Such packing problems are related to understanding many other problems including liquids seeping through soils, the flow of granular materials like sand and gravel, dense storage of information in digital memory, and even determining the best shapes for packaging consumer products like medicine tablets and candies.

Daan Frankel of the University of Cambridge discusses the tetrahedral packing experiment and related research in a Viewpoint article appearing in the current edition of APS Physics.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: arminius on May 05, 2010, 03:03:39 AM
Only applies to random stacking. d6s can fit more than d4s with deliberate stacking. If you have d12s in the shape of rhombic dodecahedra, they'll be as good as d6s in this respect. (They can tesselate three-dimensional space.) They seem to be pretty rare, but here's a picture of one: http://www.uff.br/cdme/pdp/pdp-html/dice-06-isohedra-rhombic-dodecahedron.jpg

But stacking dice is tiring, so I agree that dumping a bunch of d4s into a container and shaking it to minimize the wasted space is pretty neat.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Cylonophile on May 05, 2010, 07:25:44 PM
D4 are the superior dice! All other dice will be ex-ter-min-a-ted!!!
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Benoist on May 05, 2010, 08:25:47 PM
I love d12. I often lament at its relative unuse in this hobby.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Cylonophile on May 05, 2010, 10:11:48 PM
Quote from: Benoist;378817
I love d12. I often lament at its relative unuse in this hobby.
 They make good scatter dice for determine where a missed round scatters to in cases where the location a missed round goes matters, like in case of a mortar shell, artillery round, etc.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Insufficient Metal on May 06, 2010, 01:33:08 AM
Quote from: Benoist;378817
I love d12. I often lament at its relative unuse in this hobby.


Quite. One of the things I love about Savage Worlds is that you can use d12 a lot.

I think the d10 has the most elegant shape of any of the polyhedrals. Maybe d8 if it's a Gamescience.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Imperator on May 06, 2010, 02:42:00 AM
Quote from: Benoist;378817
I love d12. I often lament at its relative unuse in this hobby.


They are my favourite dice, too.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Drohem on May 06, 2010, 01:21:21 PM
If you're out of caltrops, a handful of d4s will do nicely against barefooted targets.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Koltar on May 06, 2010, 02:32:31 PM
Yeah but d4(s) don't really 'roll' - they just kind of land on the table or slide.

Not as satisfying as dice that actually roll - like six siders, 12 siders and 20 siders.


- Ed C.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Cylonophile on May 06, 2010, 06:12:34 PM
They make alternative d4's now that are rod shaped with rounded edges that roll better than the triangular ones.

I'd have thought someone who claims to work in a game store would know about them.

http://www.gmdice.com/proddetail.php?prod=cc01404
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: arminius on May 06, 2010, 06:25:27 PM
But do they pack as densely?
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: shalvayez on May 06, 2010, 06:26:32 PM
Quote from: Cylonophile;378963
They make alternative d4's now that are rod shaped with rounded edges that roll better than the triangular ones.

I'd have thought someone who claims to work in a game store would know about them.

http://www.gmdice.com/proddetail.php?prod=cc01404


 Those are rather nifty.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Cylonophile on May 06, 2010, 10:24:55 PM
Quote from: Elliot Wilen;378967
But do they pack as densely?

I'd imagine they could be dense packed if you alternated the pointy ends on facing rows so they overlapped and fit together with the points on one row meshing with the valleys between the points on the other.

But you can't use them for caltrops, which is good or bad depending on whether or not you step on one with a bare foot or arrange for someone you don't like to.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Cylonophile on May 06, 2010, 10:25:52 PM
Quote from: shalvayez;378969
Those are rather nifty.

What?! A post that's not a  flame on me?

All right, who are you and what have you done with the real shalyayez?

(And how much do you want not to return him?)
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Koltar on May 06, 2010, 10:50:42 PM
Quote from: shalvayez;378969
Those are rather nifty.


That's what he said?
 Huh.

My store only gets primarily Chessex and Koplow's - whatever they have that sells the most.


- Ed C.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: arminius on May 07, 2010, 12:35:27 AM
I've got some dice in that style, not sure how many sides. I'm
not crazy about them because they roll TOO much. I think they don't fall out of the hand very nicely either.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: shalvayez on May 07, 2010, 02:56:01 AM
Quote from: Cylonophile;378998
What?! A post that's not a  flame on me?

All right, who are you and what have you done with the real shalyayez?

(And how much do you want not to return him?)


 Young man, I am the real Shalvayez. If you happen upon something I might dig, even though I think you're an asshat, I MIGHT even agree with you. It's called "objectivity". A concept that is lost on you, I am sure. Though, I see you're still hot for Koltar, I hate to disappoint you, I don't think Koltar swings on that side of the plate, if you know what i mean.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Cylonophile on May 07, 2010, 06:30:45 PM
Well damn, the kidnappers must have let him go. :( ,,,,,,
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: shalvayez on May 07, 2010, 10:35:39 PM
Quote from: Cylonophile;379195
Well damn, the kidnappers must have let him go. :( ,,,,,,


 Don't you have a pre-algebra test to study up on?
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Balbinus on May 13, 2010, 10:11:00 AM
Quote from: Koltar;378933
Yeah but d4(s) don't really 'roll' - they just kind of land on the table or slide.

Not as satisfying as dice that actually roll - like six siders, 12 siders and 20 siders.


- Ed C.


Absolutely.

I know there are other sorts of d4 (though I've never seen them in the wild and I'm not surprised Koltar hasn't either) but they are not the true d4.  They are not platonic solids.  They do not count.  They are a blasphemy, and not to be spoken of again.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Cylonophile on May 14, 2010, 12:12:15 AM
Quote from: Balbinus;380535
Absolutely.

I know there are other sorts of d4 (though I've never seen them in the wild and I'm not surprised Koltar hasn't either) but they are not the true d4.  They are not platonic solids.  They do not count.  They are a blasphemy, and not to be spoken of again.


Oh, that's it. Between the talk about d4 being superior, andother4 sides dice not being 'true d4" I am definitely going to do a 3d model of a d4/dalek cross, shouting "D4 are the superior dice" All other dice will be EX-TER-MIN-A-TED!!!"
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: shalvayez on May 14, 2010, 01:14:12 AM
Quote from: Cylonophile;380648
Oh, that's it. Between the talk about d4 being superior, andother4 sides dice not being 'true d4" I am definitely going to do a 3d model of a d4/dalek cross, shouting "D4 are the superior dice" All other dice will be EX-TER-MIN-A-TED!!!"


 You are a jackass of unprecedented proportions.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Balbinus on May 14, 2010, 01:09:29 PM
Quote from: Cylonophile;380648
Oh, that's it. Between the talk about d4 being superior, andother4 sides dice not being 'true d4" I am definitely going to do a 3d model of a d4/dalek cross, shouting "D4 are the superior dice" All other dice will be EX-TER-MIN-A-TED!!!"


I demand pictures.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Cylonophile on May 14, 2010, 10:24:17 PM
Quote from: shalvayez;380651
You are a jackass of unprecedented proportions.


You are a cocksucking motherfucking troll of unprecedented proportions.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: shalvayez on May 14, 2010, 10:56:37 PM
Quote from: Cylonophile;380796
You are a cocksucking motherfucking troll of unprecedented proportions.


 I know you dig the guys and everything, and I'll respect the difference of preferences, but it would be a mistake to assume ALL guys are cocksuckers. Just you fags. Now, if you had called me a carpetmuncher, snatchlicker, or Master Of Cunnilingus, you would have been more accurate.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Benoist on May 14, 2010, 10:58:36 PM
Quote from: Cylonophile;380796
Quote from: shalvayez;380651
You are a jackass of unprecedented proportions.


You are a cocksucking motherfucking troll of unprecedented proportions.


(http://www.glhowe.com/TCFF/11.jpg)
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Koltar on May 15, 2010, 01:34:00 AM
Benoist,

"Can you pass the popcorn?"

I'll buy the next bucket


- Ed C.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: shalvayez on May 15, 2010, 02:20:57 AM
Quote from: Koltar;380819
Benoist,

"Can you pass the popcorn?"

I'll buy the next bucket


- Ed C.


 Well, you know first hand that it is Cylo that's the cocksucker, he's been following you around trying to suck yours.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Cylonophile on May 15, 2010, 03:26:08 AM
Quote from: shalvayez;380830
Well, you know first hand that it is Cylo that's the cocksucker, he's been following you around trying to suck yours.


AHA! Now I see. You're just coal tar's sockpuppet he uses to attack people through while looking all innocent. because he likes to practice that whole "passive aggressive" thing, like all bitches do.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Kyle Aaron on May 15, 2010, 04:32:23 AM
I think there's a little too much focus on the penis in this thread, and not enough focus on dice.

Remember, lads, penises are for private time, dice come out at the game table, not the other way around. Can you two please take your witty repartee to PM?
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: shalvayez on May 15, 2010, 01:19:21 PM
Quote from: Cylonophile;380840
AHA! Now I see. You're just coal tar's sockpuppet he uses to attack people through while looking all innocent. because he likes to practice that whole "passive aggressive" thing, like all bitches do.


 Except that Koltar and I rarely agree on anything. He's a decent bloke. You are not. And by the way, bitch, there's nothing "passive" about me. Pure aggression, here. Now, quit trying to suck Koltar's dick, he's old enough to be your grandpa.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Koltar on May 15, 2010, 02:24:56 PM
Quote from: Kyle Aaron;380846
I think there's a little too much focus on the penis in this thread, and not enough focus on dice.

Remember, lads, penises are for private time, dice come out at the game table, not the other way around. Can you two please take your witty repartee to PM?


Kyle,
I can see only one half of that exchange - since Pundit asked me to put someone on IL - but that Popcorn image was amusing. (Okay a liitle bit more than 'half' - since people keep quoting him).

I still stand by statements about d4s. At least eight siders actually kind of roll, or might make that fun clattering sound on the table. Four sided dice just kind of flop there when 'rolled'.

- Ed C.
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Cylonophile on May 19, 2010, 01:22:51 AM
OK, d4 are superior, here's proof:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3565/4620950076_1a506e7163_b.jpg)
Title: d4 are superior!
Post by: Cylonophile on May 19, 2010, 06:32:56 AM
Quote from: shalvayez;380900
Except that Koltar and I rarely agree on anything. He's a decent bloke. You are not. And by the way, bitch, there's nothing "passive" about me. Pure aggression, here. Now, quit trying to suck Koltar's dick, he's old enough to be your grandpa.
 Yeah, you claim to disagree with him, but call him a decent bloke. Yeah, right. Have your sock disagree with you a little, fake a britt manner of speaking but support you in an attack and attack the people who hate him.

Sniff sniff. Smells like argyle to me.