This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
NOTICE: Some online security services are reporting that information for a limited number of users from this site is for sale on the "dark web." As of right now, there is no direct evidence of this, but change your password just to be safe.

Author Topic: d4 are superior!  (Read 1029 times)

Kyle Aaron

  • high-minded hack
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9214
  • high-minded hack
    • The Viking Hat GM
d4 are superior!
« on: May 05, 2010, 02:38:16 AM »
You can fit the most dice in one space if they're d4s. It's been proven by science.
   Tetrahedral dice, which have four triangular sides, pack more densely than any other shape yet tested, according to research performed by a collaboration of New York University and Virginia Tech physicists.

The revelation is the result of a series of experiments that involved pouring tetrahedral dice into containers, shaking them, and adding more dice until the containers were completely filled. After adding water to measure the open space between the dice, the researchers confirmed that the tetrahedrons fill roughly 76% of the available space in a large container. Similar experiments with spheres typically only fill containers to about 64% of the total volume.

The researchers were able to get an inside view of the packed tetrahedral dice by imaging the containers with an MRI machine. The images are vital in helping them check and refine their die packing models.

The experiment, which is reported in the May 3 issue of Physical Review Letters, confirms recent calculations predicting efficient packing. Such packing problems are related to understanding many other problems including liquids seeping through soils, the flow of granular materials like sand and gravel, dense storage of information in digital memory, and even determining the best shapes for packaging consumer products like medicine tablets and candies.

Daan Frankel of the University of Cambridge discusses the tetrahedral packing experiment and related research in a Viewpoint article appearing in the current edition of APS Physics.

Arminius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7270
    • http://ewilen.livejournal.com/
d4 are superior!
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2010, 03:03:39 AM »
Only applies to random stacking. d6s can fit more than d4s with deliberate stacking. If you have d12s in the shape of rhombic dodecahedra, they'll be as good as d6s in this respect. (They can tesselate three-dimensional space.) They seem to be pretty rare, but here's a picture of one: http://www.uff.br/cdme/pdp/pdp-html/dice-06-isohedra-rhombic-dodecahedron.jpg

But stacking dice is tiring, so I agree that dumping a bunch of d4s into a container and shaking it to minimize the wasted space is pretty neat.

Cylonophile

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
d4 are superior!
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2010, 07:25:44 PM »
D4 are the superior dice! All other dice will be ex-ter-min-a-ted!!!
Go an' tell me I'm ignored.
Kick my sad ass off the board,
I don't care, I'm still free.
You can't take the net from me.

-The ballad of browncoatone, after his banning by the communist dictators of rpg.net for refusing to obey their arbitrary decrees.

Benoist

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22049
d4 are superior!
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2010, 08:25:47 PM »
I love d12. I often lament at its relative unuse in this hobby.

Cylonophile

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
d4 are superior!
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2010, 10:11:48 PM »
Quote from: Benoist;378817
I love d12. I often lament at its relative unuse in this hobby.
 They make good scatter dice for determine where a missed round scatters to in cases where the location a missed round goes matters, like in case of a mortar shell, artillery round, etc.
Go an' tell me I'm ignored.
Kick my sad ass off the board,
I don't care, I'm still free.
You can't take the net from me.

-The ballad of browncoatone, after his banning by the communist dictators of rpg.net for refusing to obey their arbitrary decrees.

Insufficient Metal

  • Housewares
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1130
d4 are superior!
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2010, 01:33:08 AM »
Quote from: Benoist;378817
I love d12. I often lament at its relative unuse in this hobby.


Quite. One of the things I love about Savage Worlds is that you can use d12 a lot.

I think the d10 has the most elegant shape of any of the polyhedrals. Maybe d8 if it's a Gamescience.

Imperator

  • Say hello!
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4000
    • http://elblogdelemperador.wordpress.com
d4 are superior!
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2010, 02:42:00 AM »
Quote from: Benoist;378817
I love d12. I often lament at its relative unuse in this hobby.


They are my favourite dice, too.
My name is Ramón Nogueras. Running now Vampire: the Masquerade (Giovanni Chronicles IV for just 3 players), and itching to resume my Call of Cthulhu campaign (The Sense of the Sleight-of-Hand Man).

Drohem

  • RPG Diversifier
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4460
d4 are superior!
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2010, 01:21:21 PM »
If you're out of caltrops, a handful of d4s will do nicely against barefooted targets.

Koltar

  • Openly GURPS Loving
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8158
d4 are superior!
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2010, 02:32:31 PM »
Yeah but d4(s) don't really 'roll' - they just kind of land on the table or slide.

Not as satisfying as dice that actually roll - like six siders, 12 siders and 20 siders.


- Ed C.
The return of 'You can't take the Sky From me!'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUn-eN8mkDw&feature=rec-fresh+div

This is what a really cool FANTASY RPG should be like :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-WnjVUBDbs

Still here, still alive, at least Seven years now...

Cylonophile

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
d4 are superior!
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2010, 06:12:34 PM »
They make alternative d4's now that are rod shaped with rounded edges that roll better than the triangular ones.

I'd have thought someone who claims to work in a game store would know about them.

http://www.gmdice.com/proddetail.php?prod=cc01404
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 06:20:06 PM by Cylonophile »
Go an' tell me I'm ignored.
Kick my sad ass off the board,
I don't care, I'm still free.
You can't take the net from me.

-The ballad of browncoatone, after his banning by the communist dictators of rpg.net for refusing to obey their arbitrary decrees.

Arminius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7270
    • http://ewilen.livejournal.com/
d4 are superior!
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2010, 06:25:27 PM »
But do they pack as densely?

shalvayez

  • Deviated Septum
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 557
    • http://www.myspace.com/abnormallydeceased
d4 are superior!
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2010, 06:26:32 PM »
Quote from: Cylonophile;378963
They make alternative d4's now that are rod shaped with rounded edges that roll better than the triangular ones.

I'd have thought someone who claims to work in a game store would know about them.

http://www.gmdice.com/proddetail.php?prod=cc01404


 Those are rather nifty.
PRICE CHECK! CLEAN UP AISLE SIX! ROTTED BODY LANDSLIDE!! AND DON'T FORGET OUR SPECIAL SALE ONE EVERY BONE BROKEN CHICKEN! HURRY! ENJOY OUR TASTY HALF-SNOT FACE. AISLE THREE!

Cylonophile

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
d4 are superior!
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2010, 10:24:55 PM »
Quote from: Elliot Wilen;378967
But do they pack as densely?

I'd imagine they could be dense packed if you alternated the pointy ends on facing rows so they overlapped and fit together with the points on one row meshing with the valleys between the points on the other.

But you can't use them for caltrops, which is good or bad depending on whether or not you step on one with a bare foot or arrange for someone you don't like to.
Go an' tell me I'm ignored.
Kick my sad ass off the board,
I don't care, I'm still free.
You can't take the net from me.

-The ballad of browncoatone, after his banning by the communist dictators of rpg.net for refusing to obey their arbitrary decrees.

Cylonophile

  • BANNED
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
d4 are superior!
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2010, 10:25:52 PM »
Quote from: shalvayez;378969
Those are rather nifty.

What?! A post that's not a  flame on me?

All right, who are you and what have you done with the real shalyayez?

(And how much do you want not to return him?)
Go an' tell me I'm ignored.
Kick my sad ass off the board,
I don't care, I'm still free.
You can't take the net from me.

-The ballad of browncoatone, after his banning by the communist dictators of rpg.net for refusing to obey their arbitrary decrees.

Koltar

  • Openly GURPS Loving
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8158
d4 are superior!
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2010, 10:50:42 PM »
Quote from: shalvayez;378969
Those are rather nifty.


That's what he said?
 Huh.

My store only gets primarily Chessex and Koplow's - whatever they have that sells the most.


- Ed C.
The return of 'You can't take the Sky From me!'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUn-eN8mkDw&feature=rec-fresh+div

This is what a really cool FANTASY RPG should be like :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-WnjVUBDbs

Still here, still alive, at least Seven years now...