Quote from: JimBobOz... nobody wants to hear what some pudgy-bellied pasty-skinned geek does with their genitals.

Except on RPG.net Tangency :rolleyes:
 
Apparently.

Quote from: David RAnd really when we talk of freedom of speech, this merely to translates to the freedom of calling other folks pricks. I've done my fair share of fighting for freedom of speech - which in the larger scheme of things means very little - so you would forgive me, if I say, that if this is the best thing one could say of the Pundit and his contribution to gaming..., then well, jeez fuckin' weak.

Specifically, I'm talking about RPGPundit's ability to take criticism without using his moderator status for retaliation.  Given how many people fall to that temptation, I do think it's notable that he doesn't and it does differentiate him from others who have.

Quote from: David RNow, don't get me wrong. I'm not sayin' that freedom of speech is not important, just that is this context it means very little. I'm not sayin' we should have rules...I'm just sayin' that folks who use this whole freedom of speech argument and I'm talking about the Pundit here are just full of shit. Freedom of speech ain't gonna help this site. Oh, Pundit won't ban you or close threads but then he really won't ever have to.

FYI, I'm on record as saying (and really annoyed the admins of Nutkinland for saying) that if you have to moderate a site, I prefer ENWorld's approach.  They apply the grandmother rule and limit discussion of politics and so forth, not because they are worried about people who use the site hurting each other's feelings but because they are concerned with how the message boards look to the public at large. That's a very different moderation policy than what you'll find at TPB or The Forge.  So given my own personal choice, I'd prefer a site either moderate like ENWorld or do very little moderation at all like here.  The other approaches to moderation remind me of being in high school with snitches, cliques, teacher's favorites, cool kids, etc.  Ugh.  Once was enough.

Quote from: John MorrowSpecifically, I'm talking about RPGPundit's ability to take criticism without using his moderator status for retaliation.  Given how many people fall to that temptation, I do think it's notable that he doesn't and it does differentiate him from others who have.

Well there was the James McMurray* and Lev drama. I suppose the fact that there were Public Consultation threads makes it a lot more palatable - if one feels strongly about these kinds of issues (I participated in those threads). He's doing a good job of moderation so far and I've stated this publically and by PM. We will just have to wait and see, how long this attitude continues.

*Is McMurray still on force ignore?

Regards,
David R

On an unrelated note, can I just say that when I see the term "sacked", I think of someone losing their job... y'know, a paid profession.  Let's keep some perspective here.  One of the things that shits me about the mods at RPG.net, is this attitude that being a moderator is some kind of tiresome burden.  If it is such a damn burden, that don't fucking do it.  It's not supposed to be a punishment.  It's not like a real job, which you might hate but have to do because it pays the bills.  Participating in a forum is supposed to be fun.  
 
Seriously, I hate that shit.
 
The snark that comes from some of the mods, whether justified or not, suggests that very few of them enjoy what they do.  And I have no sympathy with them for that.

You're not meant to have sympathy for them, mate. You're meant to feel gratitude to them for taking up this heavy burden with no thought of personal gain.

It's a bit like when you get some game group with a GM who buys all these books that never get used and writes up all this stuff that no-one reads and runs a game no-one likes too much, and if anyone else tries to GM, sabotages the session, or treats it as just a temporary deviation - weird mutation, even - from the norm of the regular game, and then talks about how unappreciated they are...

"But it's all for you! Really! Man, my job is so hard, I am so self-sacrificing, nobody appreciates me..."
"But mate, we're not having fun."
"See?! No respect, I get no respect!"

A while back a friend of mine who'd been unable to find a full-time job for a long time talked about how he'd been made president of this club, and was helping out at this other place, and so on. He said, "Seems like everyone wants to hire me so long as they don't have to pay me. Makes me feel very valued!" The flipside to being valued so low is that it'd be a real kick in the guts to be fired from a volunteer job. You're offering them your services for nothing - and they don't think you're worth it. Your efforts are worth less than nothing to them.

So maybe "sacked" isn't technically the right word, but I think it's a word strong enough to convey the meaning - it's gotta be a real kick in the guts for the guy. 36,000+ posts show he was pretty invested in the place. Mind you, it was 36,000+ posts almost all not about rpgs. So I don't have that much symathy for him

Quote from: JimBobOzSo maybe "sacked" isn't technically the right word, but I think it's a word strong enough to convey the meaning - it's gotta be a real kick in the guts for the guy. 36,000+ posts show he was pretty invested in the place.

Tangency has a 15 page thread of people wishing him well.  That would be sufficient to stroke most egos, so I think he'll be pretty happy.  Personally, I found all the love somewhat vomit-inducing - afterall, 90% of the folks would have never met the guy.  And it's not like he's got some kind of life-threatening illness or something.  He's leaving a fucking message board.

Quote from: Tyberious FunkTangency has a 15 page thread of people wishing him well.  That would be sufficient to stroke most egos, so I think he'll be pretty happy.  Personally, I found all the love somewhat vomit-inducing - afterall, 90% of the folks would have never met the guy.  And it's not like he's got some kind of life-threatening illness or something.  He's leaving a fucking message board.

Well, he's lost his ability to play god, you see. he can't push people around, censor them, taunt them, provoke them and then ban them when they reply anymore.

So it is  big loss to him.

Quote from: Tyberious FunkTangency has a 15 page thread of people wishing him well.  That would be sufficient to stroke most egos, so I think he'll be pretty happy.  Personally, I found all the love somewhat vomit-inducing - afterall, 90% of the folks would have never met the guy.  And it's not like he's got some kind of life-threatening illness or something.  He's leaving a fucking message board.

See my signiture.

Quote from: David RJ.Arcane and John Morrow both make very good points. I should just leave it at that but I won't. (Their comments are in no way linked with the following)

As far as gaming is concerned Pundit is a hypocrite. He is for all intents a Swine...Lawncrapper too. And so are few others on this site. I think it was Old Scratch or maybe someone else who said when refering to this place that he had no intention of coming here because he did not want to go to a place that filled him with so much negativity about the hobby he loved. I've heard that a lot.

No offense, Dave.....but I'm convinced you're wrong. Pundit is not a lawncrapper; he's more like a cranky old goat. He has his good points, and his bad points, like the rest of us (though his are surely exaggerated).

Quote from: David RThere is a hell of a lot of negativity in this place. And by positive I don't mean the SteveD kind of cheerleading that goes on on tBP (This is not a knock on the Platypus) but rather the kind of positivity that folks like JimBob, TonyLB, Spike and a few others bring. The Pundit does have these moments to, but on the whole he seems more eager to sustain his rep as the BigBad "You Can't Handle (MY) The Truth" saviour of gaming.

The negativity here is more of the amusing rant variety, and I believe that it's healthier (and less frustrating) than the passive-aggressiveness at rpg.net.

Quote from: David RThe fact is that Pundit says that his views don't influence the way how he moderates this site. The fact is his views does effect the way how folks perceive this site. And I'm not talking about his dumbass views on women, but really which women would want to participate in a site where the owner thinks so lowly of them. Fact is, there are a hell of a lot of other places where they could contribute. I mean it's like calling an Indian/Pakistani man Paki and then sayin' "hey you're free to particpate here". I'm talking about the way how he pisses on anybody who does not like the stuff he likes.

And really when we talk of freedom of speech, this merely to translates to the freedom of calling other folks pricks. I've done my fair share of fighting for freedom of speech - which in the larger scheme of things means very little - so you would forgive me, if I say, that if this is the best thing one could say of the Pundit and his contribution to gaming..., then well, jeez fuckin' weak.

Theory ? Noboy gives a fuck about it. Whether on tBP or here, the same folks come and talk about the same shit. I think there are some folks who come here just to take a dump in the theory threads. No big deal really. This is what amounts to freedom of speech at least in this place.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not sayin' that freedom of speech is not important, just that is this context it means very little. I'm not sayin' we should have rules...I'm just sayin' that folks who use this whole freedom of speech argument and I'm talking about the Pundit here are just full of shit. Freedom of speech ain't gonna help this site. Oh, Pundit won't ban you or close threads but then he really won't ever have to.

Think about this for a second. Pundit :pundit: will not give you the ban axe for the post you just made. Doesn't that count for something? If you made a post like yours to a mod on rpg.net, Curt and the other mods would gleefully roast your ass over a fire with marshmallows before happily banning you with a heavy side order of snark.

Now, granted....Pundit will give you a verbal thrashing :haw: :pundit: (and he'll enjoy it), but has he ever actually abused his mod powers? Even once? No.

And honestly, I don't care about gaming theory either. It sounds like pseudo-intellectual psychobabble to me. :confused:

Quote from: David RThis site won't reach the stage where there will be hundreds of users to monitor. And it won't get to that stage not because of folks like JimBob or GMS or any other flame warrior you can think of. It will be because the peception of Pundit will overshadow anything constructive anyone else does here.

Off course that's an accomplishment in itself and it would just prove me right, that what the Pundit really cares about is his rep to alienate gamers...or in his thinking a certain kind of gamer.

Regards,
David R

I disagree with you. This site is in its infancy, and technically, therpgsite already has THOUSANDS of members. Where will this place be in five years? Do you know? I sure as Hell don't. You know why you're wrong about Pundit? Because his style of moderation is to start discussions (with flames, :devil: if necessary), not to end them. That's what makes this place so different from rpg.net (though I still love rpg.net in my own way ).

Mark my words. This place will be much larger in five or six years (Pundit or not). I don't know what this place will become, but it'll grow. It should be interesting to see how things turn out.

Quote from: Sacrificial LambThink about this for a second. Pundit :pundit: will not give you the ban axe for the post you just made. Doesn't that count for something? If you made a post like yours to a mod on rpg.net, Curt and the other mods would gleefully roast your ass over a fire with marshmallows before happily banning you with a heavy side order of snark.

Of course it counts. That's one of the reasons why I like it here. And I have stated many times that the Pundit, Mcrow, jrients and the rest have made a wonderful job with the site thus far. But one thing doesn't change the other.

Quote from: Sacrificial LambNo offense, Dave.....but I'm convinced you're wrong. Pundit is not a lawncrapper; he's more like a cranky old goat. He has his good points, and his bad points, like the rest of us (though his are surely exaggerated).

None taken. I have no problem conceding when I have been proven wrong. My use of Lawncrapper was in the Morrow mode and perhaps in the way how Pundit uses the term. When I say he has driven away folks from the hobby...well let's just say I believe this as much as when Pundit says that White Wolf drove folks away from the hobby.

Everyone has got good and bad points. The problem here is that his bad points rightly or wrongly influences the perception of this place. And yeah , you are right about the exaggeration part.

QuoteThe negativity here is more of the amusing rant variety, and I believe that it's healthier (and less frustrating) than the passive-aggressiveness at rpg.net.

Yeah.

QuoteThink about this for a second. Pundit :pundit: will not give you the ban axe for the post you just made. Doesn't that count for something? If you made a post like yours to a mod on rpg.net, Curt and the other mods would gleefully roast your ass over a fire with marshmallows before happily banning you with a heavy side order of snark.

Sure and in my post I made it clear that so far he's doing a good job. I've told him by PM and now I'm just repeating myself.

QuoteNow, granted....Pundit will give you a verbal thrashing :haw: :pundit: (and he'll enjoy it), but has he ever actually abused his mod powers? Even once? No.

True. But I think that "we" - all of us have something to do with this, as the McMurray and Lev drama illustrates.

QuoteI disagree with you. This site is in its infancy, and technically, therpgsite already has THOUSANDS of members. Where will this place be in five years? Do you know? I sure as Hell don't.

Never said this place will fail Lamb, just that I'm concerned that it may.

QuoteYou know why you're wrong about Pundit? Because his style of moderation is to start discussions (with flames, :devil: if necessary), not to end them.

I was not aware that this was one of the functions of moderation. Being provocative is one thing, most times what the Pundit does is not very productive and I'm not talking about moderation but posting style.
 

QuoteMark my words. This place will be much larger in five or six years (Pundit or not). I don't know what this place will become, but it'll grow. It should be interesting to see how things turn out.

I hope so. And I mean this sincerely. Either way I'll be around

Regards,
David R

Quote from: Tyberious FunkTangency has a 15 page thread of people wishing him well. That would be sufficient to stroke most egos, so I think he'll be pretty happy. Personally, I found all the love somewhat vomit-inducing - afterall, 90% of the folks would have never met the guy. And it's not like he's got some kind of life-threatening illness or something. He's leaving a fucking message board.

You realise also that the thread about Curt leaving has reached 18 pages here. True, it veered off topic and several pages are sod all to do with him, but it's the kind of thing that certain RPGnetters will point to when they accuse TheRPGSite of being nothing more than a bunch of RPGNet Banees crying in the wilderness.

Quote from: O'BorgYou realise also that the thread about Curt leaving has reached 18 pages here. True, it veered off topic and several pages are sod all to do with him, but it's the kind of thing that certain RPGnetters will point to when they accuse TheRPGSite of being nothing more than a bunch of RPGNet Banees crying in the wilderness.

As long as they're entertained.

Be aware that genetically speaking this site is an amalgam of RPGNet & SJGames disenfranchised and Punditheads, growing on the stable rock of the no-holds-barred Nutkinland-ENWorld-Circus Maximus- Connection.
Add in some Levi-look-alikes and some Storygames crowdanistas who feel the need to engage in the culture war, and you have theRPGSite.
Once in a while you might even bite on a chunk of Animalball.


DavidR: If you change theRPGsite to make it more appealing to the weak of stomach and the weak of mind, then theRPGSite will have lost it´s soul and purpose.

I´m really starting to sense some agendas here. People seem to be trying to change theRPGsite, to better match their vision. I´ll be vigilant. Don´t try anything, don´t think us Desert Nomads can be fooled easily, even if the MASTER is away on vacation.

Quote from: SettembriniI´m really starting to sense some agendas here. People seem to be trying to change theRPGsite, to better match their vision. I´ll be vigilant. Don´t try anything, don´t think us Desert Nomads can be fooled easily, even if the MASTER is away on vacation.

Dude, you're following the trail of the Pundit into Paranoidland.