Quote from: SkyrockYour British beat cops absolutely don't. AFAIK some special response teams have access to guns, but that's it.

You can see this in the way they want you to answer the questions on the website about guns.  Remember: you don't have one.

Quote from: StuartYou can see this in the way they want you to answer the questions on the website about guns.  Remember: you don't have one.

"Keystone Cops, ts ts... Always bring a baton to the shoot-out."

I failed because British cops are, apparently, fucking pussies.

Quote from: JackalopeI failed because British cops are, apparently, fucking pussies.

What, were you trying to be an action hero?  Cops hate action heroes.  Action heroes get people (especially other cops) dead.

Thought everyone knew that.

Tony, if rpgs have taught me anything, it's that real men don't worry about the safety of themselves or innocent bystanders! :guns:

Quote from: StuartWhat was more interesting is the picture it paints of the UK... which actually matches what I've heard from some UK police officers we know.

The US doesn't have gun crime, antisocial behaviour, abandoned cars and vandalism?

Quote from: droogThe US doesn't have gun crime, antisocial behaviour, abandoned cars and vandalism?

Not anymore.  We outlawed them.

!i!

Quote from: StuartYou can see this in the way they want you to answer the questions on the website about guns.  Remember: you don't have one.

That's why I failed the firearm exercise so spectacularly.  I forgot I didn't have one.

I quit about a third the way through the first series of questions. I started having Demolition Man flashbacks...

Quote from: TonyLBWhat, were you trying to be an action hero?  Cops hate action heroes.  Action heroes get people (especially other cops) dead.

Thought everyone knew that.

I actually quit after the first question, when it said it was too dangerous to attempt to arrest the robbers as they fled the scene.  I didn't want to bother thinking through how a cop unprepared for the job (i.e. no gun) would handle dealing with armed criminals.

I was making no "action hero" assumptions.  I just assumed I had a gun and plenty of back-up, and could get behind my car and tell the robbers to cease and desist.  Real cops (i.e. American cops) don't intentionally let criminals flee the scene of a crime and thus potentially get away.

Sure, it's more "dangerous" to actually arrest criminals than to simply monitor them from a distance.  But it's not like it ever gets less dangerous.  You follow the robbers back to their hideout, eventually you have to go in and get them, and that's going to be dangerous.

An arrest on the scene, catching the criminal red handed, not only makes for a stronger case in court, it has the advantage of being a very public display of police power.

Of course, in America, an officer in such a situation would be in very little danger, as American criminals rarely fire at police, and American courts tend to strongly favor officer discretion in officer shootings.  American criminals mostly know that if you run at the police with a handgun in view, you're pretty much dead.  Game over.

Quote from: JackalopeSure, it's more "dangerous" to actually arrest criminals than to simply monitor them from a distance.  But it's not like it ever gets less dangerous.  You follow the robbers back to their hideout, eventually you have to go in and get them, and that's going to be dangerous.

Well ... you and several dozen of your well armed and armored co-workers get to crash into their headquarters in a coordinated effort, after thoroughly scoping the area and formulating a plan of attack.

Y'know, that actually does sound less dangerous to me.

It has the disadvantage of being an assault on a presumptively prepared defender, which strategically (if not actually practically) calls for a 3:1 advantage.

Which is why standoffs take so long when the bad guys demonstrate they know the cops are coming... its too farking dangerous to assault a prepared position.

Whereas taking felons down in the open, when they are not able to stop and plan and 'defend' in any meaningful way, while 'dangerous' is somewhat safer and smarter than following them 'safely' back to their hideout and mounting a small scale seige of the place.

Then again, I am a proponent of 'crime prevention' by means of a massive army of rooftop snipers who shoot anyone who even LOOKS like they will commit a crime.  

Now ask me why I have the layout of the sewers memorized....

Quote from: SpikeNow ask me why I have the layout of the sewers memorized....

Probably because You were a minor demon or vampire character on a Joss Whedon TV show.


- Ed C.

Quote from: SpikeWhereas taking felons down in the open, when they are not able to stop and plan and 'defend' in any meaningful way, while 'dangerous' is somewhat safer and smarter than following them 'safely' back to their hideout and mounting a small scale seige of the place.

I see your arguments, but I'm still not convinced that a beat cop should be trying to pull off multi-person arrests single-handedly when there is not yet an explicit threat to public safety.  The number of things that can go wrong, even if the cop is as well armed as the criminals, is staggering.

I suspect that the sweet spot is somewhere between the two extremes:  You hang back and act as eyes and ears while a force is rapidly mobilized, and that force (plus you, maybe) intercepts the criminals at some point before they've settled in and pulled up the drawbridge on their little castle-o'-crime.

This reminds me of the one area that RPGs, in particular, always fail to cover adequetely: the effects of having a gun already pointed at you on combat/intimidation/morale.

Now, true: This seems predicted on the fact that the police man is essentially unarmed (Shades of Demolition Man once more!) while he believes the felons ARE armed... at least for questions 1 and 2, while a serious case could be made from thence on (Your gun has Replica written down the side while mine says Desert Eagle point Five Oh, and that is why your balls are.... huh? Oh, no movie quotes... my bad...)... that they are not.

Most criminals don't care to get shot, or in fact engage in shootouts with police.  A lone cop may be in a risky position trying to stop fleeing felons by confronting him with pistol drawn and pointed, but in real life said felons trying to shoot him are at more risk than he is due to the disadvantage of him 'having the drop' on them.

Of course, in a game, they take their 2d8 HP of damage, blaze away and keep running. In Hollywood, they quickdraw against him, blow up a couple of cars, and keep running, leaving a greiving widow (who saw it all as she came to visit the hubby on her rounds) and bugels play softly on the soundtrack... and the REAL hero swears on his buddy's grave (the poor bastard should have known better, he retired the next day after all... virtual death sentance even to show up for work!) and does a one man army...


Er....


Yeah.