Let's look more closely at the costs involved in making an issue of a comic.

Came across this page which outlines the costs of the artists.  It's from 2003.

Quote- There is a pay rate per page, But please note that these are only standard payments, which are subject to change by time.

1- Newcomer:-
a)- Penciler: $10-60
b)- Inker: $10-25
c)- Colorist: $5-20
d)- Cover Penciler: $40-75
E)- Cover inker: $25-50
F)- Cover colorist: $75-250

2- Seasoned Artist: -
a)- Penciler: $50-120
b)- Inker: $25-60
c)- Colorist: $25-60
d)- Cover Penciler: $100-200
E)- Cover inker: $75-100
F)- Cover colorist: $250-700

3- A pro:
a)- Penciler: $100 &up
b)- Inker: $60&up
c)- Colorist: $60&up
d)- Cover Penciler: $200&up
E)- Cover inker: $100&up
F)- Cover colorist: $1,000 &up

I can't vouch fully for the accuracy of these figures, but the figures for the "seasoned artist" penciler seems plausible.  (It doesn't mention what a letterer, writer, or editor makes per page).

From friends who are amateur artists, many of them have mentioned it would take them around a day or two to draw one page typical of a comic book with 4+ panels (without doing any inking or coloring), depending on the detail required.  They all mentioned they can't work continuously all day with no breaks, or else it would drive them nuts.  When they spend an entire day doing canvas drawings, they would spend a few hours drawing, and take an hour or so off, and then continue drawing again (several times during the day).  Excluding breaks from drawing, their drawing time would be approximately the number of hours working a full time job during a day.  At the federal minimum wage of $7.25, working 8 hours full time would get $58.

No idea how many pages an inker or colorist can do in one day.

Using the "seasoned artist" figures, the low end for penciler + inker + colorist is $100 per page while the high end is $240 per page.  For a cover artwork, the low end is $425 while the high end is $1000.

So for a typical generic comic book with 22 pages of actual comic art (the rest of the pages are editorial and other crap), at the low end it would cost $2200 while the high end costs around $5280.  Add in the cost of a cover, the low end would cost $2625 while the high end would cost $6280.  In the middle, it would cost around $4450.  (These figures don't include the cost of the letterer, writer, and editor).

When it comes to printing costs, the only semi-official quoted figures I've heard of were from Quebecor World (who is/was DC Comic's main printer).

Some individual figures were $1308 for 2000 copies (without shipping) of a B&W comic book with color covers (back in 2005), which is about 65 cents per copy.  (For poorer selling comic issues with colored pages, I have no idea how much it deviates from 65 cents per copy).  Nevertheless, we'll take 65 cents per copy as a lowball figure.

Let examine some poorer selling titles, such as IDW's "Kill Shakespeare".  Issue #4 had a revenue of $5578.02 from 3,495 copies sold through Diamond.  Most likely the artists who were hired to do "Kill Shakespeare" were paid at the lower end of the "seasoned artist" figures.  For 3,495 copies, it would cost around $0.65*(3495) = $2271.75 to print.  So the total cost of the artists + printing is $4896.75 as a lowball figure.  Subtracting this from the revenue, $681.27 is left to cover the cost of the writer, editor, shipping, profit, etc ...

One can calculate the minimum number of copies to sell, in order to cover the fixed costs of the penciler + inker + colorist + printing.

The (unrealistic) assumptions we'll use are:

- the cover price is $3.99 and Diamond pays 40% of cover price
- printing costs are a fixed 65 cents per copy
- the costs of the editors, letterer, writer, shipping/storage, etc ... are ignored
- a fixed license fee X per issue
- penciler + inker + colorist are paid at the low end of "seasoned artist" ($2625 per issue)

Without going through the algebra, the minimum number of issues N required to cover the fixes costs of artists + printing + license fees X (while ignoring everything else) is:

N > (X + 2625)/0.946

For various fixed license fees X:

X = $1000, N > 3832
X = $2000, N > 4889
X = $3000, N > 5946
X = $4000, N > 7003
X = $5000, N > 8060
X = $6000, N > 9117
X = $7000, N > 10174
X = $8000, N > 11232

In the case of the IDW D&D comic, most likely the WotC license fee is less than $8000 per issue.

Using the formula for minimum number of issues N sold from previous post, we can determine more constraints on a WotC license fee.

We'll assume the number of copies sold per issue drops by around 25% from issue #1 to issue #2, and afterward the number of copies sold per issue drops by around 5% from one issue to the next.

Taking a time series starting from the IDW D&D issue #2 figure of 11,623 copies sold, along with a 5% drop from one issue to the next, we get for the possible number of copies sold for successive issues:

2 - 11,623
3 - 11,042
4 - 10,490
5 - 9965
6 - 9467
7 - 8994
8 - 8544
9 - 8116
10 - 7711
11 - 7325
12 - 6959
13 - 6611
14 - 6280
15 - 5967
16 - 5668
17 - 5385
18 - 5116
19 - 4860
20 - 4617
21 - 4386
22 - 4167
23 - 3958
24 - 3760
25 - 3572
26 - 3393
27 - 3224
28 - 3063

Since 6 issues of the IDW D&D are already scheduled for release, then the WotC license fee is most likely less than $7000 per issue.

If they plan on doing two story arcs lasting five issues each (ie. to issue 10), then the WotC license fee is most likely less than $5000 per issue.

If they plan on doing three story arcs lasting five issues each (ie. to issue 15), then the WotC license fee is most likely less than $4000 per issue.

If they plan on doing four story arcs lasting five issues each (ie. to issue 20), then the WotC license fee is most likely less than $2000 per issue.

If they plan on doing five story arcs lasting five issues each (ie. to issue 25), then the WotC license fee is most likely less than $1000 per issue (or even zero with no fee).

No offense intended, but are you autistic?

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;438185No offense intended, but are you autistic?

Seanchai

I don't believe so.

It's just a stream of consciousness thinking.  

Quote from: ggroy;438187I don't believe so.

It's just a stream of consciousness thinking.  

Why?

Either you buy the damn book or you don't.

Obsessing about whether or not it sells doesn't get you a bigger paycheck, nicer house, spiritual fulfillment, or get you laid.

Either you like the D&D COMIC BOOK and you buy it for enjoyment - or you don't.

 The rest is just spinning your wheels bullshit.


- Ed C.

Quote from: ggroy;438187It's just a stream of consciousness thinking.

Very detailed stream of consciousness thinking backed by research. Which isn't a bad thing, just odd, especially considering that few seem to be disagreeing (or even interested).

Seanchai

The IDW Dark Sun and upcoming IDW Forgotten Realms Drizzt series I'm interested in.  Not so much the main IDW D&D series.

This analysis is applicable to any comic book series.  It just happens this is an rpg message board, where D&D is of some interest.

The impression I'm getting from this analysis, is that the financials of the comic book business really sucks for anything which is not a huge DC or Marvel title.

Quote from: Koltar;438214The rest is just spinning your wheels bullshit.


- Ed C.

Many people on here like doing the "spinning the wheels bullshit" thing.

Just go to the main rpg section or the pundit's own section of this message board.  

Quote from: Seanchai;438219Very detailed stream of consciousness thinking backed by research.  Which isn't a bad thing, just odd, especially considering that few seem to be disagreeing (or even interested).

Not surprising, considering this isn't a comic book message board.

The research isn't even that extensive.  For example for better data on printing costs, one would phone up Quebecor World and ask for quotes for different sized print runs for a comic book with different features (ie. colored pages, etc ...).

For Koltar's objection to this thread being about D&D specifically, let's do the same detailed analysis for licensed properties which are not D&D related at all.  (Nor a popular tabletop rpg, or even a tabletop rpg for that matter).

Examine Assassin's Creed by DC comics.  Issue #2 had a revenue of $9440.34 from 5,915 copies sold through Diamond. Most likely the artists were "seasoned artists" paid at the lower end figures ($2625).  For 5,915 copies printed at 65 cents each, the printing cost would be $3844.75.  The total cost of artists + printing is $6469.75 as a lowball figure.  Subtracting this from the revenue, $2970.59 is left to cover the cost of the writer, editor, shipping, profit, Ubisoft's license fee, etc ...  Most likely Ubisoft's license fee is less than this.  (Perhaps less than $2000 per issue).

Examine "Army of Two" by IDW.  Issue #1 had a revenue of $6666.49 from 4177 copies sold through Diamond.  (Issues #2 - #6 did not make it into Diamond's monthly top 300+ list of best selling comic issues).  Most likely the artists were "seasoned artists" paid at the lower end figures ($2625).  For 4177 copies printed at 65 cents each, the printing cost would be $2715.05.  The total cost of artists + printing is $5304.05 as a lowball figure.  Subtracting this from the revenue, $1336.44 is left to cover the cost of the writer, editor, shipping, profit, EA's license fee, etc ...  (Perhaps EA's license fee is less than $1000 per issue, or even no fee?)

Examine "Dragon Age" by IDW.  Issue #3 had a revenue of $7129.33 from 4467 copies sold through Diamond.  (Issues #4 - #6 did not make it into Diamond's monthly top 300+ list of best selling comic issues).  Most likely the artists were "seasoned artists" paid at the lower end figures ($2625).  For 4467 copies printed at 65 cents each, the printing cost would be $2903.55.  The total cost of artists + printing is $$5528.55 as a lowball figure.  Subtracting this from the revenue, $1600.78 is left to cover the cost of the writer, editor, shipping, profit, EA/Bioward's license fee, etc ...  (Perhaps EA/Bioware's license fee is less than $1000 per issue, or even no fee?)


With these EA and Ubisoft licenses, perhaps they're not even taking a license fee per issue.  A $1000 to $2000 per issue license fee would be peanuts to a big video game company.   Another possibility is that instead of a license fee, EA and Ubisoft made a deal to place their ads (possibly at a very low cost or even for free) in their respective licensed comics in lieu of a license fee.  In effect, such an arrangement would essentially be another form of advertisement for the video game companies, while the comic book company (IDW or DC) bears the brunt of the expenses in producing and marketing the comic.

Its not an 'objection'.

Are you going to buy the comic book or not?
Why the fuck should the rest of us care if this book succeeds or not? (while we're happily buying 'LEGION of Super Heroes' or the  latest X-MEN...)

Goddamn Ggoy, look in your local paper, see what movies are playing - and ask somebody out on a date.


.......or call your friends up and say : "Hey I want to do a game session based on Superheroes . Who's interested?"


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;438248Are you going to buy the comic book or not?

I already have the next two issues of the D&D and Dark Sun issues on pre-order.

Quote from: Koltar;438248Why the fuck should the rest of us care if this book succeeds or not?

Then why are you reading this thread?

Feel free to place me on your "ignore" list.

Quote from: Koltar;438248Its not an 'objection'.

Yes it is!  

Quote from: Koltar;438248Goddamn Ggoy, look in your local paper, see what movies are playing - and ask somebody out on a date.

No good movies.  I've been dating someone for the last year or so.

Quote from: Koltar;438248.......or call your friends up and say : "Hey I want to do a game session based on Superheroes . Who's interested?".

None of my local nearby friends are rpg gamers.  (They're not gamers at all, for the most part).

Over the last several years, I've only really gamed with acquaintances and strangers.

Hey Ed.

If you really don't like this thread, go ask the Pundit (or another admin) to lock up the thread.  If they agree with you, they'll lock it up.