Why? Why is it John that pushed it too far? Did he call Heston's politics retarded or disgusting?

You guys want to point the finger at Mr. Morrow because you don't agree with the policies he's defending.

BTW - Mr. Morrow, FWIW, I think you're chasing the wrong argument; I always do when people go down this line. The right to have a gun is as much (moreso IMHO) for the purpose of protecting yourself from the government as it is anything else. It's quaint, these days, but the concept is no less meaningful.

RIP, Chuck - well played, sir.

John Morrow, you're the only person who came on this thread and didn't say anything about Charlton Heston.  All the other participants started out arguing about Charlton Heston's politics.  Then it devolved into some more general political discussions, which is where you came in.  And then you kept it going.  That's the difference.  It's like you hang around waiting for something you disagree with and then you jump in.  That's the problem for me at least.

Quote from: John MorrowWhy is it my responsibility, alone, to let it go?

Nature of the site John, one of the reasons I don't hang around here long. Judged as a whole, therpgsite is very center-left and that means you don't deserve the same respect as the typical center-left poster.

It's not moderated, but one can still be shouted down.

One of the sad things about this thread is that posters here have broken one of the traditional rules- an announcement of a person's recent death (as this thread was) is not the place to debate their policies, but instead only to express loss, and list achievements from the PoV of the deceased.

Attacking those achievements should be left for other times and places. It's the one place and time where "if you have nothing good to say, say nothing" should aways apply.

John, Folks,

 People sometimes claim that I'm as "right-wing" as John Morrow is.

 I don't know if thats true or not.
 I am getting tired or politics and side issues getting dragged into every thread about a famous person's death.

In some ways it seems like people have a jealousy thing where because somebody was famous they feel they have to "take them down a peg or two" - just out of spite.


 By-the-way ....
 I DON"T feel any 'left-center-vibe'  politically speaking here on therpgsite. Felt the leftwing stuff more so on the Big Purple. (Tangency must be pretty whacky today I bet, between the Condi Rice story and Charlton Heston news)

Here, on Pundit's forum it feels a lot more "centrist" politically speaking - if there is such a thing on the web.

To re-cap : Charlton Heston was pretty darn good actor. I liked it when he played heroes in over the top movies.

- Ed C.

Quote from: walkerpJohn Morrow, you're the only person who came on this thread and didn't say anything about Charlton Heston.

Here's the problem.  My main memories of Charlton Heston are political, which is why I refrained from adding them to the thread because I didn't want to make it political.  The first few people who didn't like his politics simply said so and moved on, which I had no problem with.

So, do you want to know what I remember most fondly about Charlton Heston?  The day he got on the Rush Limbaugh program and told Rush Limbaugh that the secret to a long marriage is three words.  Rush asks, "You mean, 'I love you?'"  "No," Heston replied, "'I was wrong.'"  I also remember Rush Limbaugh playing Charlton Heston reading the lyrics for the rap song Cop Killer to Time-Warner's shareholder meeting.  And, yes, I remember him a spokeman for the NRA and being attacked for that.  If this little memory starts a round of Rush Limbaugh bashing, remember, you pretty much asked for it.

Yes, I could also have "me, too"ed about Planet of the Apes, Soylent Green, Omega Man (which I want to see again, since I haven't seen it in years), and the movie I most remember him for, The Ten Commandments, but I didn't think I'd have much to add there that other people weren't saying.

Quote from: walkerpAll the other participants started out arguing about Charlton Heston's politics.  Then it devolved into some more general political discussions, which is where you came in.  And then you kept it going.  That's the difference.

It takes two sides to keep it going.  Why do you keep pretending that's not the case?

Quote from: walkerpIt's like you hang around waiting for something you disagree with and then you jump in.  That's the problem for me at least.

So, would you really like to see more "Me, too" posts from me?

Quote from: John MorrowSo, do you want to know what I remember most fondly about Charlton Heston?  The day he got on the Rush Limbaugh program and told Rush Limbaugh that the secret to a long marriage is three words.  Rush asks, "You mean, 'I love you?'"  "No," Heston replied, "'I was wrong.'"  I also remember Rush Limbaugh playing Charlton Heston reading the lyrics for the rap song Cop Killer to Time-Warner's shareholder meeting.  And, yes, I remember him a spokeman for the NRA and being attacked for that.

Now you're talking.  What was the context of him reading Cop Killer?  Was it an artist they promoted?

You want to talk irony??

Ice-T now plays a Cop weekly on NBC.


Maintaining continuity : Yay Charlton Heston!!


- Ed C.

I like guns.  I like shooting them.  I'd like to be able to own my own guns, once I actually can afford to do so.

I have no delusions however, that a bunch of scrabbly rednecks with storebought fire arms are going to put up much of a threat to an armed government possessed of the full range of modern military hardware.  So unless you're talking about extending the amendment to cover the full range of high powered military gear, then the "revolution" argument is a load of old bollocks.  

I also possess no delusion of them being especially useful for "self defence", considering, for one, how utterly irresponsible it is to be carrying or storing a loaded firearm, and for the second, how many statistics suggest that the second you brandish a weapon, especially a gun, the chance of you winding up dead from what otherwise might've been a survivable encounter go through the roof.  

Guns are not magic wands that make all your problems go away.  And these two arguments in particular, as well as the lunacy of Heston and his NRA, make responsible gun owners look bad, make the cause of gun ownership look bad, and tarnish the reputation of the entire United States.

Quote from: walkerpNow you're talking.  What was the context of him reading Cop Killer?  Was it an artist they promoted?

Basically, they were trying to get Time-Warner to stop selling and promoting rap with vile lyrics.  So to bring home the message of exactly what was being said in those lyrics on the ablums Time-Warner was selling to the shareholders, Charlton Heston read them out loud in the meeting.  He also read the lyrics to "KKK Bitch" (which included lyrics about "Tipper Gore's two 12-year-old nieces").  His article about it from National Review in 1992 can be found here.  He does a few of the less vulgar lyrics in this speech (full audio here - about 14 minutes in) if you want a sample.

Quote from: J ArcaneI have no delusions however, that a bunch of scrabbly rednecks with storebought fire arms are going to put up much of a threat to an armed government possessed of the full range of modern military hardware.

I know some Vietnamese who would likely take issue with that little piece of hubris...


TGA

Quote from: DrewYeah, really bad stuff happens in England sometimes. Just look at our history.

You know what though? It's rare as rocking horse shit, and is usually confined to areas that have broken down due to poverty, drugs and poor community relations. Day to day life in Britain is mercifully free of the horrific acts of violence you've cited, and I can't see how allowing the general public access to guns would make things any better.

Getting rid of guns is a band-aid solution to the collapse of social support structures in the developed world. If you spent real money helping the poor, breaking down racist structures in society and treating the mentally ill humanely it wouldn't matter if everyone had guns (see Switzerland or France or Canada, for example, all of which possess a great deal of long-arms).

Quote from: PseudoephedrineGetting rid of guns is a band-aid solution to the collapse of social support structures in the developed world. If you spent real money helping the poor, breaking down racist structures in society and treating the mentally ill humanely it wouldn't matter if everyone had guns (see Switzerland or France or Canada, for example, all of which possess a great deal of long-arms).

I agree with all the above, and am being very careful not to propose that other nations need to change their own legislation.

My current thinking is that the sudden introduction of guns to countries where they aren't commonly available would likely be more catastrophic than the sudden removal of them from countries where they are. This of course assumes that said countries (including Britain) still labour under the difficulties you mention above.

Charlie: Your acting may not have been top shelf, but your movies never failed to entertain.

You politics may not agree with others, but they were always much more normal than many of the celebrities which try to fill your oversized boots.

I think your first act as an 'out of the closet Alzhiemer's patient' would be to go around Hollywood beating Tom Cruise or Madge or...

Well, you get the picture.

cue Beethoven's Symphony No. 6 ,,Pastorale"

Quote from: gleichmanJudged as a whole, therpgsite is very center-left and that means you don't deserve the same respect as the typical center-left poster.

It's not moderated, but one can still be shouted down.

I'm curious, Brian -- what happens on a right-of-center site? Everyone marches in lockstep?

!i!