Quote from: Abyssal MawI don't see how anyone got run off. If Cessna wants to leave, he leaves. If he wants to come back, he comes back.

Nobody controls anyone. We are all in charge of our own destinies. Quit pointing fingers.

I've been trying to write something better, but you seem like a somewhat intelligent sort, Maw. I'm sure you realize why you're just pumping out bullshit here, so I can only assume it serves a purpose for you. And so, in conclusion...

Get off his dick, man. That was a shitty decision.

can somebody pass the popcorn?  this show's kind of fun, even though you know how it goes. . .

this exchange could be a big point in killing OT

Quote from: James McMurrayWhat was inevitable? That Pundit would lash out at Cessna andhe'd decide he didn't want to put up with it?

Pundit "lashing out" at Cessna was far, far from surprising. Cessna and Pundit have history. Cessna and a few posters here have history. The moderators as a collective and a few posters here have history.

Also, Cessna's going from protected status to just another poster. While you can disagree (politely) with moderators on TBP, they're not just another board member. That's not the case here. Cessna no more or less protected than anyone.

Moreover, there's the role reversal. It used to be that Cessna was the authority and Pundit the regular joe. Now Pundit's the authority.

Personality-wise, Cessna never struck me as...easy-going. Not that there's anything wrong with that. (Clearly, I'm not either.)

Finally, I have a suspicion that Cessna is not so much interested in games and gaming. We invited him to play with us three times—once before he was a moderator, once when he was a moderator and once after I was banned. All three times, talks progressed to a certain point, then he begged off. That, too, is just fine—but without a solid interest to sustain a person, I'm not sure they'd stick around with this board's off topic fare.

Seanchai

I'm not exactly sure why Pundit's neccesarily in the wrong here. I mean, look what Cessna wrote in one of the many threads about how to handle the Obnoxious Asshole Fucktard (OAF):

Quote from: CessnaThis all sounds familiar.

In fact, this is EXACTLY how rpg.net moderation started in 2001/2002. EXACTLY. I can dig up the threads and link to them if you like.

Be careful here. If you aren't, six years from now you'll find yourself being called "fascist" by a group of disaffected users for trying to keep a message board from being turned into a craphole, so that other people have a nice place to talk about games – only to end up with a place so bland and inane you yourself hate it.

Now I’m not a partisan in this particular fight.  As far as I can recall, I’ve never posted over a tBP; I know I’ve never been “modded.” So I don’t know Cessna from Adam. But that sounds an awful lot like he’s saying if Pundit takes a specific action against the OAF – in this case a topic ban or some such – he’s heading in the same direction as tBP; even offers to provide the links to similar discussions.

Now, on the one hand, he pushes off some of the “blame” for how that ended up on the people like Pundy who scream “FASCISM!!!” when modded on a forum about RPGs. But look at my bolded emphasis. Hate yourself for it? I could see how that could be seen as Cessna believing that something went wrong.

Was he admitting to Pundit being right in any way?  I highly doubt it. I, too, lifted an eyebrow at that assertion by Pundy.  But I write that off the same way I write of JimBob’s high horse or my own knee-jerk reactions. It’s certainly not out of the realm, however, to suggest that Cessna is regretting choices made that allowed the Pleasantville many claim tBP to be, but resulted in boring, inane discussions.

And Pundy, perhaps the reason Cessna doesn’t want to admit to admitting anything, or Levi had to get drunk, was because they know what a fucktard you would be in response to that. I know you’ve been waiting so long to somehow prove that your banning was the single most unjust act ever perpetrated on a human being via the Internet, but you could have been a much better about it.  Don’t get all stupid; you could have just linked to the response I showed above and let people make their own decision.

They are both wrong if you ask me.  Cessna could have just as easily “admitted” explicitly to what he seemed to be implying – or at least clarified what he meant. Pundit certainly could have been more gracious in his reaction and just let the fact the Cessna was here and not there speak for itself.

So as much as Pundy was an asshole, there’s plenty of blame to go around.

Yes you can say Cessna sent some mixed messages and you can come to the very same conclusion that Pundit did.  But just yesterday on Pundit's own blog here:

http://www.xanga.com/RPGpundit/584837013/item.html

He writes:

QuoteIts nice to see Cessna at theRPGsite, and I hope he continues to be there. I hope other people stop razzing him there.

QuoteSo put aside the old grudges, dudes. I for one welcome it. Any ill-will I had vanished the moment he quit, I could only wish he'd done so more forcefully, but I guess they train those RPG.net modclique types very well, look at Levi.  It took a serious amount of liquor to get him to admit the reasons he quit.  So I'm content enough to let him become just another poster on theRPGsite, enjoying his liberty and newfound freedom.

Then goes on to continue to razz Cessna, after Cessna clarifies his own position, is poorly done.

read his blog?  for god's sake I get enough of him here

I find Pundit, to be a pretty sharp guy and agree with him more times than not when it comes to gaming.  And I don't want to rag on the guy because in the grand scheme of things, this matters very little.  BUT, and maybe I'm taking the news of Moldvay's passing a bit too personal (I've been in a soulsearching mood as of late), this could have been avoided and by Pundit's own words COULD have been avoided had he taken his own advice.  

Just to put my agenda cards on the table:  I'm here because I enjoy the site.  I nag because I care about the site.  I think we have the potential to have a special little corner in the RPG websphere.  Cessna would be a terrific poster here and its too bad that he's decided to leave.

So that's what it looks like when Pundit sets aside his grudges, welcomes you, and his ill will vanishes. :rolleyes:

Pundit, you're a dick.  A dribbling little dick.

!i!

I have to admit, I don't really understand some of the undying grudges against TBP.  This isn't a free speech crusade.  A private business can tell you to shut the hell up pretty much anytime it chooses.  Try staging a Vegan protest in McDonalds and see how long you remain on the premises.  TBP and this site are private boards following separate business models.  TBP caters to people who want to feel "safe" to post without getting harrassed.  People who like that kind of board hang out there and those that don't hang out here.  Some like me can go either place and not care (although I prefer it here).

I agree that many of the bans they have issued are stupid but that is their choice.  If you don't like that approach, go to the competition (here for instance).
 
It isn't a war and the fact Cessna got tired of having to herd cats over there and wanted a break to just kick back and talk RPG's is understandable. It is a shame that old feuds may keep him from contributing without getting hammered.  Holding a grudge against an internet message board is the very definition of pointless.

:oops:

Quote from: GrimjackI have to admit, I don't really understand some of the undying grudges against TBP.  This isn't a free speech crusade.  A private business can tell you to shut the hell up pretty much anytime it chooses

Well, you gotta remember RPGnet started off with a tone very much like the rpgsite has now, and precisely who decided to change this isn't obvious.

It certainly looks like some self appointed local politicians decided to hijack peoples site to turn it in to something it wasn't. Possibly surprisingly, this wasn't universally appreciated.

Quote from: RPGPunditBut you already slipped somewhat, didn't you? You pointed out your concern about the direction this site could go in, and how it would lead to being the way RPG.net is now.  That's out there, so yes, you've admitted it.

It wasn't an "admission of failure", you silly sod. It was simply saying, "you don't like how rpg.net turned out, well - it started just like this. So if you don't like how rpg.net turned out, be careful how you make this decision." Cessna wasn't "admitting failure", he was just pointing out that there's a series of roads in the country of a forum, and that rpg.net had gone along a particular road after choosing a certain turnoff - and we were at that same intersection. To say, "that's the road we chose that got us where we are" is not to say, "where we are is bad."

Cessna wasn't saying the way they chose was wrong, just that there are a number of ways you can go. He wasn't "admitting failure", he was trying to show us the road map. It's like saying, "well if you have four out of six chapters in an rpg about combat, probably in a game session you'll get a lot of combat" - that's different to, "lots of combat in rpgs is wrong." Cessna was just pointing out that decisions have consequences, and lead certain ways. He wasn't saying the way things turned out were bad.

The guy was obviously burned out on moderating rpg.net a year or two back. I for one told him to quit then - but it's obvious he kept on from a sense of obligation. When you do something you're not enjoying out of a sense of obligation, you come to be bitter about it. One day you just quit. That day, for Cessna, was just the other day. We're seeing him at a low point. You're deliberately misunderstanding what he said, twisting it so that you can say, "I R TEH WINNAH!!!111!"

Don't be a cocksmock, RPGPundit.

Quote from: SeanchaiPundit "lashing out" at Cessna was far, far from surprising. Cessna and Pundit have history. Cessna and a few posters here have history.

Bollocks. Nothing's inevitable. "History"? Cessna banned me from rpg.net, and he was wrong to do so. But he's a person - not just some internet name - and he and his efforts at rpg.net are well worthy of respect. As an rpg.net mod and admin, he has made wrong decisions - but he is a reasonable and sensible person, and the poor guy quite obviously had only time for one hobby, moderating rpg.net or roleplaying - foolishly, out of a sense of obligation, he chose the moderating - another wrong decision, but a human one.

We're all in control of what we post, and Cessna deserves some respect, and a proper reading of what he writes, like any other poster. He also needs some consideration as a gamer - it's time to welcome the poor fucker back into the gaming fold, away from that nonsense of moderating forums. This place should be a place where you can come to get the information and inspiration you need to game.

Quote from: CessnaFolks like the system in place there.

People do business in China because that's where the opportunities are, but they don't have to like living there. Rhetoric, I know, but it's another way to look at things.

Quote from: RPGPunditWell, you're required to say that, aren't you Cessna? Its something to do with all that modclique programming you've got in you, much of which no doubt you yourself helped develop.

I mean shit, look at Levi; he was a mod way less time than you, and I had to catch him seriously drunk in order to get him to admit that RPG.net is fucked up because of the moderation policy, and that people like Darren shouldn't be mods of anything.

But you already slipped somewhat, didn't you? You pointed out your concern about the direction this site could go in, and how it would lead to being the way RPG.net is now.  That's out there, so yes, you've admitted it.

But hey, don't worry. Loosen up. Now you can be honest, why are you concerned? Do you think that RPG.net is some idol you must continue to worship at, or some delicate flower you must protect? You're scared that the other pretentious gits from the modclique are going to be mad at you, or feel betrayed, because you finally start being honest again? Fuck that.  Be honest. There's nothing to fear.

RPGPundit

You do understand that you chased off a gamer who came here to talk about games, right? Congratulations. /sarcasm