Has anyone else noticed that this isn't just a repeat of Apollo? They want to build a permanent base and use it as a stepping stone to Mars.

Quote from: Elliot WilenHas anyone else noticed that this isn't just a repeat of Apollo? They want to build a permanent base and use it as a stepping stone to Mars.

Not me, if I had I wouldn't have criticised it for lack of ambition and being a mere retread, would I?

Go NASA, ahem.

I fucking hope we go. Look at all the good that came from the Apollo program!

Imagine what we might get going back.

Love the space program.

If anybody is interested in the technical issues involved or just want to try flying a real spacecraft hop over to http://www.orbitersim.com and download Orbiter Space Simulator

Also my own Project Mercury at http://www.ibiblio.org/mscorbit and Project Gemini. Project Mercury is detailed enough that you can follow the original checklists. It also a highly automated spacecraft so you can just launch it and go along for the ride and then take control when you feel comfortable. My Project Gemini doesn't have everything implemented yet but is historically accurate in terms of flight controls, fuels, weights, etc.

There are tons of additional add-on at http://www.orbithangar.com/

All of this is free, and in the case of my add-on open source. Orbiter is free for non-commercial use.

You will find that flying a spacecraft is both easy and hard. The main problem of historical spacecraft is the limitation on fuel which makes precise calculations mandatory. However Orbiter includes a souped up spacecraft called the Deltaflyer that is excellent for beginners to learn the basic.

Finally a lot of the stuff about the space program we see is passive. We read about the mission, watch it on tv, read the biographies. It is hard to get involved actively. Amateur Rocketry is a good way but require time and money and at the high end meeting the requirements of regulation.

Orbiter is unique is that it is a general purpose simulator. you can set up any historical or hypothetical. You can do the math yourself or rely on the aids that Orbiter give. Either way you are doing the same stuff that the real guys do. The closest software ever released that is like orbiter is Microsoft Space Simulator, the last DOS software Microsoft ever released.

Enjoy
Rob Conley

Quote from: Kyle AaronSo in general, Western launchers are much more expensive per unit weight put into space, and US launchers the most expensive - that's despite long and extensive experience and support from the defence industry.

While there are difference based on factors unique to each country the prime determinate of your launch cost is literally how often do you launch. The actual hardware cost of the rocket and payload is dwarfed by the cost of running the launch facility. We pay the same for Kennedy if there are 4 shuttle launches, 2 shuttle lanuches, or none.

The more you launch the cheaper your $ per orbit will be. The advantage of re usability isn't just about saving hardware. But turnaround time. In the 70's one of the reason the shuttle was sold was because of re usability. But the problem is that the shuttle is a hangar queen and thus nothing was saved on prep time in between launches.

The shuttle main advantage is it flexibility. It's payload bay and cross-range capabilities allows it to do missions no other spacecraft could ever do. Of currently operating spacecraft the Soyuz and Shenzhou COULD match the shuttle in flexibility by varying the contents of the mission module (the front module) but the shuttle can a payload several order of magnitude bigger than those two spacecraft. The Soyuz did this for a dozen mission in the late 60's and early 70's. The Shenzhou modules have lifted a variety of payload and have been left in orbit on both the Chinese manned and unmanned flights.

Quote from: estarIf anybody is interested in the technical issues involved or just want to try flying a real spacecraft hop over to ....

Holy CRAP.  I'm gonna download some of that!  Thanks for Los Linkos, Estar!

My hubby has that. He uses it a lot.

WE (humans, mankind, Earth's populace) needs to get back into space exploration on a mopre frequent and permanent basis because it raises everybody up when we do big things like that.

Getting people to look UP and be hopeful and look forward to things - kind of insures the human race lives longer.



- Ed C.

I agree. I'd much prefer it be the United States exploring Mars and setting up bases on the moon, but if its the Chinese, then at least its still humans. I'm only mostly myopic.

I think those numbers Kyle reflect more the cost of living, the relative values of the currency, and the different levels of regulation than any actual greater efficiency on the part of the Russians or Chinese in these areas.

They might be a better comparison if index or normalized for the cost of living in those countries or the average wage.  I think the Russian and Chinese numbers would also be higher if you take out the cost associated with increased worker safety regulations in the US.


I certainly don't believe NASA's projections, anything so far out that relies on Govt. funding is pie-in-the-sky unless it is military or a running budget item.

I'd love to go to the moon again but I really have to ask why?

Quote from: XantherI'd love to go to the moon again but I really have to ask why?  

I the long run, if we have settlements on the moon and on Mars - and somebody back on Earth gets stupid and launches a nuclear attack somewhere on Earth.
 At least we have survivors up there in those settlements who could come back and re-start things.


 More optimistic answer?

 Humanity needs BIG Dreams , it also needs room to spread out. Going to the moon and Mars gives us a new challenge and frontier. As a race we need positive challenges. Going there also gives us more land to set up cities and places to live.

- Ed C.

Quote from: KoltarI the long run, if we have settlements on the moon and on Mars - and somebody back on Earth gets stupid and launches a nuclear attack somewhere on Earth.
 At least we have survivors up there in those settlements who could come back and re-start things.


 More optimistic answer?

 Humanity needs BIG Dreams , it also needs room to spread out. Going to the moon and Mars gives us a new challenge and frontier. As a race we need positive challenges. Going there also gives us more land to set up cities and places to live.

- Ed C.

While I can agree with the Big Dream I'd much rather focus resources on reducing the cost to orbit to make the really big dream of interplanetary travel more viable.   I'm all for exploring the moon to see if we can find some water and set up some infrastructure fabrication there.  That is, better to boost material out of the moon's gravity well than Earth's for building of space facilities.  

I really doubt, however, that we are near enough to establishing self sufficient colonies to realize the benefits of greater room or as a last refuge for the survival of the species.  I just think at the moment money could be better spent sending robots instead of humans with all the attendant life support requirements.

Don't get me wrong though, if they were looking for volunteers from the masses I'd sign up to ride that candle.

Quote from: XantherWhile I can agree with the Big Dream I'd much rather focus resources on reducing the cost to orbit to make the really big dream of interplanetary travel more viable.   I'm all for exploring the moon to see if we can find some water and set up some infrastructure fabrication there.  That is, better to boost material out of the moon's gravity well than Earth's for building of space facilities.  

I really doubt, however, that we are near enough to establishing self sufficient colonies to realize the benefits of greater room or as a last refuge for the survival of the species.  I just think at the moment money could be better spent sending robots instead of humans with all the attendant life support requirements.

Don't get me wrong though, if they were looking for volunteers from the masses I'd sign up to ride that candle.

If nothing else, it (the moon) could serve as a great beta test bed for building and sustaining life in non Terran situations.

We need to get the fuck off this rock.  I am all for this.

Quote from: KoltarSee?

 No matter what the topic  - Kyle aaron finds yet another way to do America-bashing.

Well, there is a lot to bash.

You guys should really get your shit together.