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Author Topic: Babylon 5 Reboot in Development  (Read 2578 times)

Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Babylon 5 Reboot in Development
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2021, 09:07:04 PM »
You seem to have made up your mind. It would be pointless to point out the positive portrayal of real earth religions later in the series.

I mean I don't like the writing style of the show. Thats unlikely to change. But if it has a positive spin on human religeons (in later seasons) I will mention that if I ever need to bring it up.

I did not like how in some cultural festival, Sinclair just arranges all these different human priests in a line and they all agreed to just stand there awkwardly until asked for maximum diversity points. Its not a negative portrayal, I just found it hoakey. I do not get the sense that the writers of the show understand sprirituality, like the writers of DS9 tried to do.
The CAPS LOCK really sells your argument.

Its a writing tick of mine. Apologies.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Babylon 5 Reboot in Development
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2021, 09:21:15 PM »
You seem to have made up your mind. It would be pointless to point out the positive portrayal of real earth religions later in the series.

I mean I don't like the writing style of the show. Thats unlikely to change. But if it has a positive spin on human religeons (in later seasons) I will mention that if I ever need to bring it up.

I did not like how in some cultural festival, Sinclair just arranges all these different human priests in a line and they all agreed to just stand there awkwardly until asked for maximum diversity points. Its not a negative portrayal, I just found it hoakey. I do not get the sense that the writers of the show understand sprirituality, like the writers of DS9 tried to do.
The CAPS LOCK really sells your argument.

I agree. My complaint is that other alien races would be just as likely to have a diverse range of religous beliefs, and so that scene did come across as hokey to me.
They get much better later in the series. Many of the main characters are shown practicing their faith without turning it into a parade. And a group of Roman Catholics set up residence on B5, trading their secular services for room and board, and featuring in a few episodes.

Quote
Its a writing tick of mine. Apologies.

No prob.

I didn't like B5 when it first came out. My friends were all talking up the show, and I didn't want to invest my attention on another potentially doomed sci-fi series. And I had issues with some of the content in the show, like you did.

Years later, I caught some seasons 5 episodes, got hooked, and re-watched the entire show. It's got it's flaws, and I don't agree with every writing decision, but I wound up really liking it because it had a different voice than any other sci-fi show up until that point. And the Big Story was refreshing after Star Trek's mostly episodic format.

It just feels to me like dumping on DS9 or TNG just based on their first seasons, a person could have much the same kind of arguments.
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Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Babylon 5 Reboot in Development
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2021, 09:28:28 PM »
It just feels to me like dumping on DS9 or TNG just based on their first seasons, a person could have much the same kind of arguments.

....Thats a really fair example. Alright, il stick with it further and see whats with it. I found DS9s first season just kinda generic, but TNGs first season is downright insufferable. But both shows had good moments.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Babylon 5 Reboot in Development
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2021, 09:39:38 PM »
It just feels to me like dumping on DS9 or TNG just based on their first seasons, a person could have much the same kind of arguments.

....Thats a really fair example. Alright, il stick with it further and see whats with it. I found DS9s first season just kinda generic, but TNGs first season is downright insufferable. But both shows had good moments.

I'd be interested if you wanted to post a thread about your thoughts on the show as you watch.
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Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Babylon 5 Reboot in Development
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2021, 09:54:21 PM »
I'd be interested if you wanted to post a thread about your thoughts on the show as you watch.

I might. But you gotta tell me: What is the good stuff from the show? I go at anything with focus on what something does good over what it does bad. If it has allot of good, then I will probably overlook the bad.
Up intil that episode that made me quit, B5 was not impressing me with the good.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Babylon 5 Reboot in Development
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2021, 10:08:45 PM »
I'd be interested if you wanted to post a thread about your thoughts on the show as you watch.

I might. But you gotta tell me: What is the good stuff from the show? I go at anything with focus on what something does good over what it does bad. If it has allot of good, then I will probably overlook the bad.
Up intil that episode that made me quit, B5 was not impressing me with the good.

What hooked me was the Londo storyline from Season 5. Nowadays, it would probably be seen as quaint, but having a main character fall into a fate like his, not being a moustache twirling villain, but just a guy who made some evil decisions and later regretted them, that was really compelling to me.

The interplay between Londo and G'Kar was what kept my attention during the rewatch. The whole Narn/Centauri war storyline is pretty good, which leads into the bigger picture concerns about the Shadows and Vorlons manipulating events and how there's so many great setups with payoffs during the series.
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Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Babylon 5 Reboot in Development
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2021, 10:29:07 PM »
What hooked me was the Londo storyline from Season 5. Nowadays, it would probably be seen as quaint, but having a main character fall into a fate like his, not being a moustache twirling villain, but just a guy who made some evil decisions and later regretted them, that was really compelling to me.
It doesn't sound quaint because most shows still don't do this and fail to do it compitently.

Still, season 5 sounds like ALLOT to swallow before it gets to the good parts. I know I dislike the resolution to the Vorlons/Shadow War, but I also disliked the resolution of DS9. Does the show get better at resolving its moral or situational dilemnas inbetween where I am and where it ends (ignoring the ending)?

HappyDaze

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Re: Babylon 5 Reboot in Development
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2021, 10:34:20 PM »
You felt that B5 said RELIGION AM BAD? Why did you think this?

Because 95% of all its portrayals of religeon portray its followers as closeminded and stupid. And that religeon is effectively a scam by aliens.
To be fair, it was a scam by godlike aliens.

Ratman_tf

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Re: Babylon 5 Reboot in Development
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2021, 10:35:26 PM »
What hooked me was the Londo storyline from Season 5. Nowadays, it would probably be seen as quaint, but having a main character fall into a fate like his, not being a moustache twirling villain, but just a guy who made some evil decisions and later regretted them, that was really compelling to me.
It doesn't sound quaint because most shows still don't do this and fail to do it compitently.

Still, season 5 sounds like ALLOT to swallow before it gets to the good parts. I know I dislike the resolution to the Vorlons/Shadow War, but I also disliked the resolution of DS9. Does the show get better at resolving its moral or situational dilemnas inbetween where I am and where it ends (ignoring the ending)?

Where are you at? If you quit mid-first-season, I'd say watch the last episode of season 1 for the context, and then give season 2 a shot. Season 2 will give you a good idea of how the rest of the series is like.

If you want to recapitulate my experience, watch season 5's The Fall of Centauri Prime. That was the one that grabbed my attention.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2021, 10:40:15 PM by Ratman_tf »
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Zelen

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Re: Babylon 5 Reboot in Development
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2021, 10:43:42 PM »
Babylon 5 (like DS9) is hard to watch these days because it falls in the weird middle ground between episodic shows like ST:TNG that are easy to put on in the background on a Saturday afternoon, and strong seasonal arc shows. I know myself I struggle to find time to watch ANY show, much less 15+ hours for a single season of a show.

For someone who is a Trek fan, DS9's filler episodes are probably more palatable than B5 simply because it's Trek, and therefore has a big reserve of background affection & lore to draw on. But in my opinion B5's mainline plotting is superior, it's more ambitious and less safe, and the character arcs are better. Particular favorites are Londo (Peter Jurasik) & G'Kar (Andreas Katsulas). Nothing Star Trek does comes close to these two characters, in my opinion.

HappyDaze

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Re: Babylon 5 Reboot in Development
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2021, 10:54:43 PM »
Babylon 5 (like DS9) is hard to watch these days because it falls in the weird middle ground between episodic shows like ST:TNG that are easy to put on in the background on a Saturday afternoon, and strong seasonal arc shows. I know myself I struggle to find time to watch ANY show, much less 15+ hours for a single season of a show.

For someone who is a Trek fan, DS9's filler episodes are probably more palatable than B5 simply because it's Trek, and therefore has a big reserve of background affection & lore to draw on. But in my opinion B5's mainline plotting is superior, it's more ambitious and less safe, and the character arcs are better. Particular favorites are Londo (Peter Jurasik) & G'Kar (Andreas Katsulas). Nothing Star Trek does comes close to these two characters, in my opinion.
At the time of their initial release, both shows were sometimes hard to get into because of the long story arcs and (particularly for B5) irregular air times. In todays world of streaming (and even last decade's DVRs), this is much less of an issue, but back in the 90s it took effort to really get into and appreciate these shows.

Stephen Tannhauser

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Re: Babylon 5 Reboot in Development
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2021, 11:52:02 PM »
To be fair, it was a scam by godlike aliens.

JMS has said that he tried to deliberately leave it unclear whether the religious imagery of various races had been implanted by the Vorlons or merely exploited by them. He has also pointed out that there are many elements of the story where we are not told what the actual objective truth of a situation is, only what the characters think or believe is the truth.  It's possible that this didn't come across as clearly as he wished, but that was at least his intended approach.

That the various races' religions may have been exploited is one thing; that those religions are all nothing but scam is not, I think, a conclusion you can draw from the series itself.
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Shrieking Banshee

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Re: Babylon 5 Reboot in Development
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2021, 12:03:30 AM »
That the various races' religions may have been exploited is one thing; that those religions are all nothing but scam is not, I think, a conclusion you can draw from the series itself.
That does make it somewhat better. Anyway I will watch up to season 2 to just get something out of my season purchase at least.

Armchair Gamer

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Re: Babylon 5 Reboot in Development
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2021, 08:41:06 AM »
Still, season 5 sounds like ALLOT to swallow before it gets to the good parts. I know I dislike the resolution to the Vorlons/Shadow War, but I also disliked the resolution of DS9. Does the show get better at resolving its moral or situational dilemnas inbetween where I am and where it ends (ignoring the ending)?

   Season 2 is where it really picks up steam; Season 3 isn't quite as good but should have enough to keep your interest, IMO. There are chunks of Season 4 I've never seen, but a lot of people swear by it. Season 5 is generally considered a step down but pulls up a bit in the second half, and "Sleeping in Light" has some genuinely touching moments.

   My experience was catching some episodes of Seasons 3 and 4 in syndication--including "Into the Fire," the resolution to the Vorlon/Shadow War, which I found likewise underwhelming--and then marathoning Seasons 1-3 on an episode a day basis in the summer of 1998, when TNT had picked up the series for the fifth season, as well as catching much of Season 5. I enjoyed it, but I don't swear by it like so many do, and I prefer DS9 overall (which I was also watching, having jumped on board at the tail end of Season 3 reruns). I think catching so much of it in retrospect gave me a different perspective than those who got on board at first or who came into it blind, though.

HappyDaze

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Re: Babylon 5 Reboot in Development
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2021, 09:24:55 AM »
To be fair, it was a scam by godlike aliens.

JMS has said that he tried to deliberately leave it unclear whether the religious imagery of various races had been implanted by the Vorlons or merely exploited by them. He has also pointed out that there are many elements of the story where we are not told what the actual objective truth of a situation is, only what the characters think or believe is the truth.  It's possible that this didn't come across as clearly as he wished, but that was at least his intended approach.

That the various races' religions may have been exploited is one thing; that those religions are all nothing but scam is not, I think, a conclusion you can draw from the series itself.
It wasn't just the Vorlons; they were actually among the youngest of the Ancients. The Shadows appear in the religion of the Narn, atl least, and the other Ancients--like the Walkers and Krishiac (sp?)--were in the creation tales of peoples far older than humans.