This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The message boards have been upgraded. Please log in to your existing account by clicking here. It will ask twice, so that it can properly update your password and login information. If it has trouble recognizing your password, click the 'Forgot your password?' link to reset it with a new password sent to your email address on file.

Author Topic: Avengers: Endgame Spoilers thread  (Read 1665 times)

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8568
    • View Profile
Avengers: Endgame Spoilers thread
« on: May 09, 2019, 02:55:22 pm »
Do people feel OK with having a clearly labelled thread where spoilers can be discussed? Anyone interested in such discussion? I thought there was some interesting stuff in the film to talk about, potentially.

Lurkndog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 308
    • View Profile
Avengers: Endgame Spoilers thread
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2019, 09:33:38 am »
Here's my big question: what happens to Guardians of the Galaxy 3 now that the Thanos storyline is over?

Drax's defining motivation is that he wanted to kill Thanos. Well, now Thanos is dead, and not by Drax's hands. Does that make him happy, or frustrated, or what?

Likewise, they have reset the Quill/Gamora relationship back to square one, undoing everything that happened in GOTG 1 and 2. I think that one can work to their advantage, as they can just have the two fall in love all over again, and falling in love is an easier story to tell than having a mature relationship.

Likewise, Nebula is in an awkward place.

They have the GOTG3 script already, I assume it was written to be post-Endgame?

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8568
    • View Profile
Avengers: Endgame Spoilers thread
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2019, 03:40:42 pm »
Quote from: Lurkndog;1087258
Here's my big question: what happens to Guardians of the Galaxy 3 now that the Thanos storyline is over?

Drax's defining motivation is that he wanted to kill Thanos. Well, now Thanos is dead, and not by Drax's hands. Does that make him happy, or frustrated, or what?

Likewise, they have reset the Quill/Gamora relationship back to square one, undoing everything that happened in GOTG 1 and 2. I think that one can work to their advantage, as they can just have the two fall in love all over again, and falling in love is an easier story to tell than having a mature relationship.

Likewise, Nebula is in an awkward place.

They have the GOTG3 script already, I assume it was written to be post-Endgame?

Yes, I would presume that they decided on roughly the Endgame ending a long time ago, and that the GOTG3 script was written assuming it. I think the big question is who the villain is going to be. For heroes, it looks like they're adding Thor to the mix along with Peter, Rocket, Drax, Groot, and possibly Nebula (?). I think Drax having an existential crisis could be hilarious, and maybe even a little touching.

Peter is definitely going to be searching for Gamora. I agree that the track record for doing mature relationship stories is poor compared to falling in love stories. I hope that they don't just try to reproduce their original love story - which would suck, but they might do it. I suspect Gamora is going to go off and get mixed up in some sort of villainous plot that they then have to untangle.

As for the villain, I doubt they're going to bring back either Ronan or Ego. I think the main established villain left in space is the Kree Empire and its Supreme Intelligence - but I doubt they're going to tie in with Captain Marvel. I suspect they'll bring in another character from the comics for a link - which could be a villainous Adam Warlock (with Infinity Wars and Doctor Strange tie-in, so maybe unlikely), or the High Evolutionary (with Thor tie-in and Rocket backstory), or for classics maybe even Galactus (though it would probably be a minion of his at first, with Galactus being the next big bad for everyone).

Lurkndog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 308
    • View Profile
Avengers: Endgame Spoilers thread
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2019, 11:43:46 pm »
It's quite possible the opening scene of GOTG3 will deal with the plot threads from Endgame, and then they'll just go on to the Adam Warlock storyline set up at the end of GOTG2.

Really, Infinity War/Endgame wouldn't be a Marvel crossover event if it didn't derail all of the other storylines that were being told.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 11:46:10 pm by Lurkndog »

rgalex

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 313
    • View Profile
Avengers: Endgame Spoilers thread
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2019, 07:11:52 am »
There have been leaks about GotG 3 going around now that Endgame is over.  What I've seen says that the story will have Drax learn that his daughter is still alive.

In the comics Drax was a human who was driving with his family and got shot at by Thanos's ship.  Drax's human soul was "rescued" and put in a different body.  His wife died but his daughter lived. I'm not sure how they'll change it for the movies but  it will probably end up with his daughter still becoming Moondragon.  

This would also tie in with the rumors of a BIG LGBTQ+ character entering the MCU as Moondragon is bi and currently involved with Phyla-Vell aka: the current Quazar.

Moondragon in the comics developed her powers on her own via meditation, chemistry and genetic engineering, which could all get tied into the supposed villain for the film... the High Evolutionary.  Looks like in the MCU the High Evolutionary was the one who created Rocket.  Lyllia is going to appear and be Rocket's love interest. She's an otter who's name showed up in GotG 1 on his rap sheet and I'm going to guess she'll be an agent of the High Evolutionary trying to get Rocket to "come home".  The High Evolutionary also ties into the whole Adam Warlock story in the comics and we know he was teased previously in GotG 2.

The rumors also say Quill and Nebula are going to be on the trail of Gamora and that their relationship will deepen.

There was no mention of Mantis, Groot or Thor.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 07:14:55 am by rgalex »

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8568
    • View Profile
Avengers: Endgame Spoilers thread
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2019, 01:42:34 pm »
Quote from: rgalex;1087629
There was no mention of Mantis, Groot or Thor.
I can't recall this from the comics, but apparently the High Evolutionary originally appeared in Thor comics - not so much a villain as an anti-hero or flawed ally. No guarantees that he's really the villain, or that if he does appear, that he'll be anything like how he is in the comics.

rgalex

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 313
    • View Profile
Avengers: Endgame Spoilers thread
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2019, 02:17:42 pm »
Quote from: jhkim;1087671
I can't recall this from the comics, but apparently the High Evolutionary originally appeared in Thor comics - not so much a villain as an anti-hero or flawed ally. No guarantees that he's really the villain, or that if he does appear, that he'll be anything like how he is in the comics.

Oh, yeah.  The MCU has made enough changes (some good, some bad IMO) that I don't expect anything to be like the comics just because.

As for Endgame, I liked it.  I thought it was a decent ending to what they have been building.  It wasn't perfect but everyone I went with, comic and non-comic fans alike had a good time.

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8568
    • View Profile
Avengers: Endgame Spoilers thread
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2019, 04:41:03 pm »
Quote from: rgalex;1087675
The MCU has made enough changes (some good, some bad IMO) that I don't expect anything to be like the comics just because.

As for Endgame, I liked it.  I thought it was a decent ending to what they have been building.  It wasn't perfect but everyone I went with, comic and non-comic fans alike had a good time.
Oh, yeah. I should say that I overall liked Endgame, too - definitely better than the other Avenger sequels (Ultron, Civil War, and Infinity War).

In retrospect, I liked their take on time travel. I probably would have preferred not to have time travel at all - but given that they did, it was much much better to have an unchangeable personal past rather than having them go back and undo whether the snap happened. I've discussed the mechanics a bit, and I think it's all consistent with a branching model of time travel.

The more annoying plot hole was that there were 13 established heroes shown as having survived past the snap and in communication, but they inexplicably forgot about 3 of them for the time heist only to have them reappear in the final battle. I understand that they wanted to focus on the original Avengers - but they could have at least written the others into the background. If they're trying to save half the frickin universe, they'd presumably want to have the full team on hand.

Aglondir

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1075
    • View Profile
Avengers: Endgame Spoilers thread
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2019, 01:58:14 am »
Quote from: jhkim;1087689
The more annoying plot hole was that there were 13 established heroes shown as having survived past the snap and in communication, but they inexplicably forgot about 3 of them for the time heist only to have them reappear in the final battle. I understand that they wanted to focus on the original Avengers - but they could have at least written the others into the background. If they're trying to save half the frickin universe, they'd presumably want to have the full team on hand.

Which 3? I will try to guess:

Captain Marvel, because "she is busy"
Valkyrie, because?
Okoye, because?
Pepper Potts, because her armor only works in Act 3?
And thus it came to pass that the Silmarils found their long homes: one in the airs of heaven, and one in the fires of the heart of the world, and one in the deep waters.

― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8568
    • View Profile
Avengers: Endgame Spoilers thread
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2019, 10:22:34 pm »
Quote from: jhkim
The more annoying plot hole was that there were 13 established heroes shown as having survived past the snap and in communication, but they inexplicably forgot about 3 of them for the time heist only to have them reappear in the final battle. I understand that they wanted to focus on the original Avengers - but they could have at least written the others into the background. If they're trying to save half the frickin universe, they'd presumably want to have the full team on hand.
Quote from: Aglondir;1098184
Which 3? I will try to guess:

Captain Marvel, because "she is busy"
Valkyrie, because?
Okoye, because?
Pepper Potts, because her armor only works in Act 3?
Yeah, it's really four. I wasn't including Pepper because her armor wasn't revealed until after the mission -- but it's just as much of a plot hole, it's just not obvious as soon.

The other three are established heroes, who are shown participating as members of the Avengers.

Aglondir

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1075
    • View Profile
Avengers: Endgame Spoilers thread
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2019, 12:49:33 am »
Quote from: jhkim;1098470
Yeah, it's really four. I wasn't including Pepper because her armor wasn't revealed until after the mission -- but it's just as much of a plot hole, it's just not obvious as soon.

The other three are established heroes, who are shown participating as members of the Avengers.

In retrospect, I wish Marvel had swapped out some of the male avengers for women avengers years ago. I would have ditched:

War Machine (boring)
Hawkeye (move him to a TV show)
Vision (never would have made him a character, he's just not that interesting)
Iron Man (yes, I said it. I think RDJ's Iron Man was past shelf life after IM3)

And added these characters to the roster:

Pepper (I would have kept the flame powers she got in IM3)
Wasp (awesome powers, also, hot)
Valkyrie (what a fun character)
And done more with Scarlet Witch. Terribly under-used.
And thus it came to pass that the Silmarils found their long homes: one in the airs of heaven, and one in the fires of the heart of the world, and one in the deep waters.

― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8568
    • View Profile
Avengers: Endgame Spoilers thread
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2019, 10:40:44 pm »
Quote from: Aglondir;1098484
In retrospect, I wish Marvel had swapped out some of the male avengers for women avengers years ago. I would have ditched:

War Machine (boring)
Hawkeye (move him to a TV show)
Vision (never would have made him a character, he's just not that interesting)
Iron Man (yes, I said it. I think RDJ's Iron Man was past shelf life after IM3)

And added these characters to the roster:

Pepper (I would have kept the flame powers she got in IM3)
Wasp (awesome powers, also, hot)
Valkyrie (what a fun character)
And done more with Scarlet Witch. Terribly under-used.
I thought Vision, Scarlet Witch, and Quicksilver were all done poorly in the MCU. More could have been done with them -- but then, more could have been done with anything. They were never established as interesting characters. I'd also agree that War Machine was boring.

Iron Man and Hawkeye were interesting enough to keep around - though I'd also have been fine to leave them and focus on others. I think they did well by those characters in Endgame.

On the other hand, I thought all of Valkyrie, Pepper, Wasp, and Okoye were well-done characters in their own movies. Given the premise of Endgame, they could reasonably take out whichever characters they wanted. But if they've got characters around, they shouldn't just disappear for no reason.

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 3052
    • View Profile
Avengers: Endgame Spoilers thread
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2019, 10:55:30 pm »
Quote from: jhkim;1098725

On the other hand, I thought all of Valkyrie, Pepper, Wasp, and Okoye were well-done characters in their own movies. Given the premise of Endgame, they could reasonably take out whichever characters they wanted. But if they've got characters around, they shouldn't just disappear for no reason.

I can agree with most of that. I thought Valkyrie, Wasp, and Okoye were good but I kinda wish Pepper had died off a long time ago. I like what Vision and Scarlet Witch could have been, but they were underdeveloped. War Machine was boring as hell (but at least he gave the Vision a chance to do something on screen).

deadDMwalking

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2253
    • View Profile
Avengers: Endgame Spoilers thread
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2019, 10:33:46 am »
It bothered me that the actor for Rhodey was changed from Terrence Howard to Don Cheadle.  There are other times where actors have been replaced (Norton/Ruffalo).  But it's still jarring.
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all. - Peter Drucker

jhkim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8568
    • View Profile
Avengers: Endgame Spoilers thread
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2019, 01:21:31 pm »
Quote from: jhkim
On the other hand, I thought all of Valkyrie, Pepper, Wasp, and Okoye were well-done characters in their own movies. Given the premise of Endgame, they could reasonably take out whichever characters they wanted. But if they've got characters around, they shouldn't just disappear for no reason.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1098728
I can agree with most of that. I thought Valkyrie, Wasp, and Okoye were good but I kinda wish Pepper had died off a long time ago. I like what Vision and Scarlet Witch could have been, but they were underdeveloped. War Machine was boring as hell (but at least he gave the Vision a chance to do something on screen).

I thought that both Tony and Pepper stagnated. There were multiple sequels, but neither them or their relationship developed significantly - until Endgame. Part of this is that Hollywood writers always have trouble with continuing relationships rather than courtship. I dislike the trend of killing off characters as a way to generate interest when writers couldn't write them interestingly. I'd prefer to just have better writing.