Quote from: ReimdallWhat your native fan take on Childress?

Jury is still out. I think last year was sort of throw away year because he has never been a headcoach and he was still stuck with all of Tice's personel. This year the team looks improved, defense is better (maybe top 3 in the NFL), Offense is improved (more athletic recievers, Adrian Peterson). I think Jackson is an improvement over Brad Johnson and he'll only get better over the course of the year. Our recievers are athletic but young, so like Jackson they should get better.

Childress had enough sense to turn-over the play calling to the offensive coordinater this year and now the play calling is better. Our two drafts since Childress has been here have been very good: We got starting LB,WR,QB,RB,2DE,and one offensive linemen. That's right 7 starters drafted in two years, plus about 8 other players who have contributed a lot to the team as backups or special teams standouts.

I think my opinion of Childress largely depends on how he developes Jackson since he took sucha a huge risk starting him.

What are the thoughts on the fines and drafts picks the Pats received?  Excellent article http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/dr_z/09/13/cheating/index.html.

I think the worst part of the Pats situation is that now it casts doubt on everything they've accomplished. ANYONE who lost to them can now say "Well, they cheated!" which may or may not be true. They've done a huge amount of harm to their reputation.

Their only recourse now is to go undefeated and win the Super Bowl. They don't need a first-round pick, but a 2nd and 3rd would hurt more I think.

Quote from: GunslingerWhat are the thoughts on the fines and drafts picks the Pats received?  Excellent article http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/dr_z/09/13/cheating/index.html.

Total bullshit.  Belichick should have been suspended a game. Guess Bob Kraft is in that tight with the league office.

Yeah, lose a first-rounder.  When you already have two first-rounders next year.  If you make the playoffs.  Incredibly, harsh that.  :rolleyes:

The only comfort is the tarnish that will follow BB from now on.  No matter what, just like Bonds, there'll always be that vocal contigent who will color everything he has done or will do.  He's a grumpy asshole anyhow, but I do feel bad for some of the Pats players that will have some of their accomplishments thrown into doubt, however unfair.

Then again, it DID spawn this song, which is one of the best things I've ever heard.

Sunuvabitch, I hate the Patriots.

For me it puts a big asterisk next to their names on the list of superbowl winners. All the comments coming out now by guys on the other team who were amazed at how many screen passes the Pats would call whenver the defense was going to blitz and things like that.

I don't know how much of an impact it really made, but the Pats cheated, a therefore didn't really win those superbowls in my book. Same thing as Barry Bonds. Hank Aaron's record still stands in my personal record book.

Okay, I have to ask.

Videotaping signals during the game your playing helps you in THAT game how, exactly? It might help you prepare for the next game, sure, but I don't know that it would have a bearing on the current contest.

If they had someone watching the opposing coaches intently, noting their signals on a notepad and charting the plays they were calling - that would be different how?

I've heard hundreds of accusations over the years of "stealing signals" - but if you're standing out in the open and waving your arms like a chicken, or tugging your nose, or whatever - the other team is just supposed to ignore it?

Not defending them necessarily, just asking. After all, every team uses videotape and still frame cameras DURING THE GAME to study the opposing teams formations and how they respond to various plays, offensively and defensively.

And the excuse making coming out of teams and players now who lost - are we really supposed to believe the entirety of New England's success was solely because of this? I don't think so. McNabb, give it up - you lost because you're overrated. Did New England beat you EVERY year you made it to the NFC Championship and tanked? Don't think so.

Quote from: WerekoalaOkay, I have to ask.

Videotaping signals during the game your playing helps you in THAT game how, exactly? It might help you prepare for the next game, sure, but I don't know that it would have a bearing on the current contest.

If they had someone watching the opposing coaches intently, noting their signals on a notepad and charting the plays they were calling - that would be different how?

I've heard hundreds of accusations over the years of "stealing signals" - but if you're standing out in the open and waving your arms like a chicken, or tugging your nose, or whatever - the other team is just supposed to ignore it?

Not defending them necessarily, just asking. After all, every team uses videotape and still frame cameras DURING THE GAME to study the opposing teams formations and how they respond to various plays, offensively and defensively.

And the excuse making coming out of teams and players now who lost - are we really supposed to believe the entirety of New England's success was solely because of this? I don't think so. McNabb, give it up - you lost because you're overrated. Did New England beat you EVERY year you made it to the NFC Championship and tanked? Don't think so.

I think it's more important when they play again - which will happen as the Jets and Pats are in division and will, therefore, play later in the year.

And who is to say that it's not being relayed at half time?  I mean, hell, they have all of those picture that show what the defensive set was just before the snap moments after the offense comes off the field.  There's nothing that would stop them from looking at the video at halftime and telling the QB (Brady in this case), "Look, when you see the defensive caller make this signal, it's an all out blitz.  They'll break out of cover two and go man - you'll have the wide receiver on the weak side isolated."  In the hands of a competant QB, that's a huge advantage.  For Brady/Manning/Etc. - it's death for the defense.

And that's just a tiny fraction of what they could learn.  "If he makes this signal, we'll tell you in the headset - audible to Waffle-69-Red-324.  Don't ask, just do it - the hole will be big enough to drive a truck through."

I didn't see the game - was there a lot of scoring in the second half?

Quote from: James J SkachI didn't see the game - was there a lot of scoring in the second half?

From what I've heard, the crew and camera were escorted off the field in the first quarter, so no information they obtained would have been used - and they still romped over the Jets.

Here's the box score:

Patriots (1-0-0)   7   7   14  10        
Jets (0-1-0)        0   7   7    0

I've been thinking about that as well werekoala and I firmly believe it could help.  Being able to communicate knowledge to your quarterback regarding coverages and blitzes being signaled by the defense would give you an upper hand to get your offensive personnel in position to make a play or assist the quarterback in reading the coverage quicker.  Instead of guessing what they are going to do, you can call a play according to your strengths.  It wouldn't help all of the time because of execution but it could give you the best possible chance you have vs. an opponent.

I don't doubt it could help, what I'm wondering is could it help in THAT game, or just in preparation for the NEXT game? An article I read on ESPN.com made some points along the lines of "If it really helped, it would be in the second half after half-time adjustments.", which I can understand. They went on to say that if that were the case, you'd expect the Pats to get BETTER in the second half, but that many times they struggled, especially in the Super Bowls. For the record, I don't think there's a chance in HELL they could cheat AT the Super Bowl, so all the haters (and I'm not a Pats fan, but I DESPISE the Eagles) need to just admit they got their ass beat and get over it (lookin' at YOU McNabb).

Quote from: WerekoalaI don't doubt it could help, what I'm wondering is could it help in THAT game, or just in preparation for the NEXT game? An article I read on ESPN.com made some points along the lines of "If it really helped, it would be in the second half after half-time adjustments.", which I can understand. They went on to say that if that were the case, you'd expect the Pats to get BETTER in the second half, but that many times they struggled, especially in the Super Bowls. For the record, I don't think there's a chance in HELL they could cheat AT the Super Bowl, so all the haters (and I'm not a Pats fan, but I DESPISE the Eagles) need to just admit they got their ass beat and get over it (lookin' at YOU McNabb).

It could help in that game if they were able to discern something specific before the second half but I'd think it would be a small percentage.  Filming signs would allow you to devise a cataloging of signs used by teams or at least by the defensive coordinators.  So during the 2nd half of the game it may only affect a handful of plays.  Once they're cataloged and deciphered it could be as many as 2 or three handfuls of plays.  Not a lot but enough to be significant.

Well, if you're able to successfully read 2-3 plays a game, that could be a huge difference. I think they could build up a bigger database for the teams they play twice a year - not sure it would help against their other opponents much except maybe in the second half.

Anyway, I'm pretty ambivalent about the whole thing, and I think people are blowing it out of proportion a bit. If it had been the Browns, there'd be a huge "meh" around the league. But its the Pats, so...

Yeah, I think only hard-core Jets fans think it actually would have changed that game.  But cheating is cheating, and in the bigger picture, it does throw some tarnish on Belichick's career.

Damn Brown. Damn Zebras.

 Did the defense for either team even show up for this game ?

 Talking the Bengals vs. Browns of course....


- Ed C.

Hey, divisional games are always crazy.  Look at Colts/Titans (should NOT have been that close!).

Man, Mike, did Tavaris Jackson crap the bed or what?  Seriously Growing Pains, man, like complete with starring Kirk Cameron.