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Author Topic: 10 Myths about atheism  (Read 23723 times)

apparition13

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10 Myths about atheism
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2006, 08:49:19 PM »
Quote from: Spike
I think you missed my point, Grim. Most of these are easy to show as existing, and as myths, simply because while they DO exist, they are rarely problems.  

In a few cases, it's been my experience that he's got them backwards  (like the scientists thing).   So, while a FEW of the ten may be very real targets,  even his arguements are hollow.  

Myth: Atheists are immoral...yadda yadda. Sure, real myth, real problem. Pointing out that 'Atheists are more likely.... due to their belief that this life matters...' is the same sort of bullshit moralizing that the religious types do. Atheists are people. Some will belive that, sure, but many will shrug and move on with their lives. Some will give up the ghost and eat a bullet in the face of an uncaring universe.  

To extend my metaphor, he's knocking down his straw men just dandy with his nerf bullets, but the real targets out there aren't affected in the least.

Crap article and hardly worth my time.


So oh "Slayer of the Sacred Cows", what are the "real targets out there" that "aren't affected in the least"?

(Agreed about science and atheism though, I think he's got that one backwards.)

By the way, what does this

Quote from: Spike
If that is the sort of defense Atheists can muster, no wonder Americans don't want to vote for them.


mean?
 

Gunslinger

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« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2006, 08:54:38 PM »
[Dripping Sarcasm]Damn, it's finally happened.  Even atheism has become a relegion.  The persecution talks have begun.  Run if they start asking for money.[/Dripping Sarcasm]
 

beejazz

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« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2006, 09:00:26 PM »
Quote from: Spike
Well, to be honest equating atheism with scientists is not particularly a 'bad thing' myth from the atheists point of view. Maybe from the SCIENTIST POV, sure.... nothing brings the witchhunters down like godlessness.....;)

The only real myth I ran into regarding Atheism, and mind you I lived in the 'bible belt' for most of a decade, was equating atheist with satanists.

Funny you should bring this up, given that I've seen people do the same with Nihilism... not that nihilism is a bad thing either... the idea that things only matter to the extent that you decide can be quite liberating.

Also, on the "Convince God He doesn't exist"... I can imagine I'd have my doubts if I were God. Probably dismiss it as delusions of grandeur. Granted, there's the omniscience bit... but how does one know if one is omniscient? Because one is omniscient? Relying on the thing called into question to answer the question is a little self-defeating and delusional in itself.

Or you could just say that no God could be living because the scientific definition of life requires a thing to preform complex chemical functions and be capable of reproduction (at least according to what they tell you in elementary school). So even if there is a God, He's dead (or undead... which is an entertaining thought).

James McMurray

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10 Myths about atheism
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2006, 09:51:05 PM »
When I converted Return to the Tomb of Horrors to 3rd edition and ran my group through it Acererak completed his apotheosis because the last surviving party member had his head vorpalized moments before he could destroy the soul gem. God is indeed undead.

fonkaygarry

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« Reply #19 on: December 27, 2006, 12:29:23 AM »
Quote from: James McMurray
When I converted Return to the Tomb of Horrors to 3rd edition and ran my group through it Acererak completed his apotheosis because the last surviving party member had his head vorpalized moments before he could destroy the soul gem. God is indeed undead.

Sounds like the backstory of a Keanu Reeves movie.
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James McMurray

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« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2006, 01:04:03 AM »
Glad you liked it.

Spike

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« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2006, 11:54:28 AM »
Quote from: apparition13
So oh "Slayer of the Sacred Cows", what are the "real targets out there" that "aren't affected in the least"?

(Agreed about science and atheism though, I think he's got that one backwards.)

By the way, what does this



mean?



To answer both at once: The thrust of the article linked in the OP is that Atheists get a bad rap in America, to the point that people would rather vote for a muslim than an atheist... according to polls. The 'myths' addressed to fuck all to really address why 'most people' hate atheists, or distrust them, or think they might be in league with ' The DEEVIL!'.  Most of his targets are set up just to be shot down (the strawmen) and the rest are either missed completely or shot so ineffectually that he might as well have never bothered.


Thus: If that is the defender protecting Atheists, its time to start running 'cause the other guy is gonna steamroll right over him like he's not there.
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RPGPundit

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« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2006, 01:48:51 PM »
So what is, in your opinion, the real reason people hate atheists, spike?

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10 Myths about atheism
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2006, 02:32:38 PM »
Quote from: Gunslinger
[Dripping Sarcasm]Damn, it's finally happened.  Even atheism has become a relegion.  The persecution talks have begun.  Run if they start asking for money.[/Dripping Sarcasm]


:confused:
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Akrasia

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« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2006, 02:40:52 PM »
Quote from: Spike
To answer both at once: The thrust of the article linked in the OP is that Atheists get a bad rap in America, to the point that people would rather vote for a muslim than an atheist... according to polls. The 'myths' addressed to fuck all to really address why 'most people' hate atheists, or distrust them, or think they might be in league with ' The DEEVIL!'.  Most of his targets are set up just to be shot down (the strawmen) and the rest are either missed completely or shot so ineffectually that he might as well have never bothered.


Thus: If that is the defender protecting Atheists, its time to start running 'cause the other guy is gonna steamroll right over him like he's not there.


I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

If your point is that the arguments against atheism discussed in the article are lame, fair enough!  They are lame.  

But they are also ubiquitous.  As I've already said, when I lived in the U.S., I regularly encountered many of these 'arguments' advanced by religious people.  

So, given that these 'arguments' are commonly aserted by religious people (especially in the U.S.), it seems like it may be useful to show why they are lame, particularly in a well read newspaper like the L.A. Times.

Now, if you're claiming that there are other reasons why Americans distrust or dislike atheists, then please present them.  I don't deny that this is a possibility, but I'd be curious to know what they are.  So I second the Pundit's request for your 'insight' on this matter.
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fonkaygarry

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« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2006, 02:47:30 PM »
Why won't Americans vote atheists into positions of power?

They don't believe in God.

Simple as that.
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Spike

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« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2006, 02:49:13 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit
So what is, in your opinion, the real reason people hate atheists, spike?

RPGPundit



Obviously those with a vested interest in religion (including worshippers, by the way) dislike, even hate those who can get along without.  Hate may be a strong word.  It's groupthink, and Atheists are outside that group.

Let me see if I can refine this a bit, clarify the sentiment.

Cultures are really nothing more than collections of behavior and rules. Many of those behaviors and rules will have beliefs.  Atheists, by rejecting established beliefs, go against the norms and actually fray the fibers of the culture. They are an irritant, a disruption.   Normally this isn't a problem. Many people 'don't believe' but continue to observe the behavioral patterns of the people around them.   However, as the article did point out, many of the brightest, rational minds, the shining lights of our culture, reject God and 'irrational beliefs', and by being prominant and successful become a threat to the status quo.  

Other religions are not nearly the threat that atheism is, because while they may not share the same exact belief, they share common forms, common thought processes, that atheists do not.   If one rejects all supernaturalism, including God, as irrational one is much further from 'comfort' than someone who believes in a different supernatural paradigm.  

FORMER atheists are popular, the most common recruiting tactic for churches to take now days is to publish the stories of unhappy 'non-believers' who found faith, and with it happiness.  This reinforces the collective ideal in a powerful way, though overexposure to outsiders tends to suggest a somewhat hollow symbolism... that is to say the cynical tendency to view such stories as hookum, or manufactured treacle.

Clear enough?  :confused:
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HinterWelt

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10 Myths about atheism
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2006, 03:00:14 PM »
I can't resist. Please forgive me Spike, and take it in the spirit of a good natured parody. :)

Quote from: Spike
Obviously those with a vested interest in mainstream(including RPGSiters, by the way) dislike, even hate those who can get along without.  Hate may be a strong word.  It's groupthink, and Forgeites are outside that group.

Let me see if I can refine this a bit, clarify the sentiment.

Cultures are really nothing more than collections of behavior and rules. Many of those behaviors and rules will have theories.  Forgeites, by rejecting established theories, go against the norms and actually fray the fibers of the culture. They are an irritant, a disruption.   Normally this isn't a problem. Many people 'don't believe (in theory)' but continue to observe the behavioral patterns of the people around them.   However, as the article did point out, many of the brightest, rational minds, the shining lights of our culture, reject Main Stream and 'rational games', and by being prominant and successful become a threat to the status quo.  

Other games are not nearly the threat that Forgeism is, because while they may not share the same exact theories, they share common forms, common thought processes, that Forgeites do not.   If one rejects all main stream games, including D20, as irrational one is much further from 'comfort' than someone who believes in a different D20 paradigm.  

FORMER Forgeites are popular, the most common recruiting tactic for theRPGStie to take now days is to publish the stories of unhappy 'non-believers' who found game, and with it happiness.  This reinforces the collective ideal in a powerful way, though overexposure to outsiders tends to suggest a somewhat hollow symbolism... that is to say the cynical tendency to view such stories as hookum, or manufactured treacle.

Clear enough?  :confused:
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Spike

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« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2006, 03:07:25 PM »
Fun stuff, Hinter...


Too bad it reads like a powerful argument in favor of forgism and rejecting the Game....;)
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HinterWelt

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« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2006, 04:20:30 PM »
Quote from: Spike
Fun stuff, Hinter...


Too bad it reads like a powerful argument in favor of forgism and rejecting the Game....;)

We could probably switch it around, it just came to me easier that way. ;)

Again, meant in fun.

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