Quote from: gamerGoyf;740184Yeah, this is the sort of discussion you should never try to have on theRPGsite. Any suggestion here that MTP isn't the pinnacle of game design is just going to result in a certain subset of the regular posters doing an acrobatic pirouette off the handle and the thread degenerating into stupid.

Let's be fair, here: you're doing the degeneration into stupid pretty well all on your own. :hatsoff:

Quote from: Sacrosanct;740155That's a pretty odd assumption to make.

Only if you assume good faith.

This thread is immensely entertaining with all the people posting who are on my Tongue My Pee Hole list.  It's rather like "Idiots Blathering about D&D Mad Libs" where I use sensible comments to fill in the dumb shit I can't see.

Quote from: Benoist;740186Let's be fair, here: you're doing the degeneration into stupid pretty well all on your own. :hatsoff:

It really is kind of odd.  The arguments are always the same.  There's an assumption that lack of rules means MTP (catering to a DM's whims hoping they will appease you).  The truth is that that is only true if you are playing with an asshole DM.  For the rest of us who like rules lite games, all we expect is for the DM to be reasonable.  MTP and mother-may-I is literally never an issue if everyone acts like an adult.  so why do people keep making these same arguments?

Follow me as I connect the dots

* If you play with a reasonable DM, feeling like you have to cater or kiss up to a DM is never an issue.
* Since you think it is an issue, you must play with asshole DMs, as they are the only ones who make it an issue
* Most people who find a DM to be an asshole stops playing with said DM and finds another group/DM, leaving asshole DM all alone looking for a group
* asshole players are dropped from good groups, leaving asshole players alone looking for a DM
* all you have left are asshole DMs looking for players, and asshole players looking for groups.
* if all you can find to play with you are asshole DMs, that makes you...

What is MTP? Sounds like a Hasbro spin off... My Tyrant Pony. Hardcore Edition!!! :eek:

magical tea party

Quote from: Omega;740195What is MTP? Sounds like a Hasbro spin off... My Tyrant Pony. Hardcore Edition!!! :eek:

Magic Tea Party.  An implication that the DM is running a tea party dictating to the players everything that happens while they all just sit there like stuffed animals.

Quote from: Benoist;740091And knowing that, if you don't make any effort to come to an understanding, dig your heels in and keep on doing the same thing "because fuck it, that's why", and then come to a forum to bitch about how your DM is a meanie who sucks all the fun at the game table for you, you ARE a fucking idiot.

Other classes have impact on the game without having to "make an effort to come to an understanding"

It's what happens when you have a DM who has their blinders on about what a Fighter should be and how they should be played.

Quote from: Sommerjon;740200Other classes have impact on the game without having to "make an effort to come to an understanding"

Untrue. You visibly haven't played a 1st ed MU ever. Or any other class, for that matter.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;740197It really is kind of odd. The arguments are always the same. There's an assumption that lack of rules means MTP (catering to a DM's whims hoping they will appease you)

Yeah let me cut you off there before you start being stupid. The term "Magic Tea Party" actually means "resolving stuff without using rules".

Quote from: gamerGoyf;740206Yeah let me cut you off there before you start being stupid. The term "Magic Tea Party" actually means "resolving stuff without using rules".

This conversation has been had here before.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;740209This conversation has been had here before.

and yet he still somehow managed to get it wrong.

Quote from: gamerGoyf;740206Yeah let me cut you off there before you start being stupid. The term "Magic Tea Party" actually means "resolving stuff without using rules".

"Magic Tea Party" has a clear imagery associated with it.  Explain why that phrase would come into being simply for resolving stuff without rules?  It makes no sense.  Please explain the correlation between resolving a challenge without a rule, and a tea party, and why that particular phrase is the best for what you say it is?

Quote from: Sacrosanct;740211"Magic Tea Party" has a clear imagery associated with it.  Explain why that phrase would come into being simply for resolving stuff without rules?  It makes no sense.  Please explain the correlation between resolving a challenge without a rule, and a tea party, and why that particular phrase is the best for what you say it is?

I always assumed the term had come from a tea party which is little kids playing "Lets Pretend" and magic well cos D&D has magic in it.

Effectively we are saying that a player who is able to present a cogent argument to the DM can pursuade them to allow a range of actions not codified in the rules, or is that "Mother may I?"

You could we all agree play a game of D&D or whatever, with no rules at all. The roleplay the exploration the whatever are all on top of the rules as they stand.

If we add a simple mechanical structure say roll 2d6 for any action and you suceed on an 8. then we have a game. I roll to hit.... A 9... but I parry... a 3 (damn) etc etc ...
Now given that this is the case we can codify the game still further and add some classes. Now thievess can try all thiefy stuff, wizards can try all magic stuff and fighters can try all fighty stuff.
But Hold on surely my wizard can still hit someone, yeah my theif too... okay so they can still do that becuase its logical.
Now you have a game where the thief has thiefy skills, the wizard has magic skills and the fighter has fighty skills but everyone else has them too. So we make the fighter better at the fighty stuff. He suceeds on a 7 everyone else needs a 9, hell lets make the wizard need a 10.
But hold on the one thing we do every game at least 4 times is fight stuff. We do some thiefy stuff but everyone complains because only the thief can do it. The magic stuff is the same so we just let the magic stuff effect the rest of the game. So lets give the thief and the wizard some other stuff they can do in combat so they are not always subpar.
And that in a nutshell is the development of class based RPGs and the reason why the fighter gets short shrift

Quote from: jibbajibba;740226I always assumed the term had come from a tea party which is little kids playing "Lets Pretend" and magic well cos D&D has magic in it.
)

There are a million kinds of "let's pretend", and most of them would be more appropriate and representative to what goes on in a session of D&D.  So why "tea party"?  Look at what a tea party is, then try to convince me it's not a phrase meant to degrade.