Quote from: Loz;689511Wow! I've never, ever, come across RQ character generation taking 2+ hours. Rolemaster yes... but never RQ.

Skill based games, only one boxed set in the group, handwriting the character on notebook paper, and things being new made it a slow process for us.  Now I ran Call of Cthulu every once in a while (if memory serves they were similar game engines).  I always made sure to make copies of character sheets less character generation drag in that game as well.

Quote from: Loz;689511Wow! I've never, ever, come across RQ character generation taking 2+ hours. Rolemaster yes... but never RQ.

Yeah. I remember it took time to generate our first few RQ characters as kids, though. Stormbringer and Hawkmoon were much easier, as I recall.

Quote from: Benoist;689529Yeah. I remember it took time to generate our first few RQ characters as kids, though. Stormbringer and Hawkmoon were much easier, as I recall.

Oh, I don't doubt it may have been time-consuming. I've simply never seen it take in the region of four hours.

Quote from: Loz;689531Oh, I don't doubt it may have been time-consuming. I've simply never seen it take in the region of four hours.

20 year old memories are not exact, and we were but teenagers.  Suffice to say, it took significantly longer than D&D.  We liked D&D just fine, so the extra time seemed superfluous.  I suspect that many that have gotten into Runequest over the years have done so as a rejection of D&D?

Quote from: Old One Eye;689538I suspect that many that have gotten into Runequest over the years have done so as a rejection of D&D?

Not as a rejection, but as a replacement. I got very disenchanted with AD&D, BRP was in the right place at the right time, and it's been there ever since.

Well, that's a big difference between then and now.

The extra complexity in the character creation in RQ WAS a big deal...even if a better game, that price of entry was a drag on the popularity of the game.

Now, PF/3.5 character creation is rough, and positively brutal once the character starts getting levels. But now there is software that does it. It's amazing the number of players I know that simply cannot create a character without using software assistance. Even with 4e, players were often paralyzed without software aid. The idea of simply rolling up a character and no min/maxing with respect to 20,000 pages of text (only doable via software, I concede) is abhorrent now, but I digress.

If RQ could have come out with such a thing back then, that would have helped, I bet.

Quote from: Old One Eye;68953820 year old memories are not exact, and we were but teenagers.  Suffice to say, it took significantly longer than D&D.  We liked D&D just fine, so the extra time seemed superfluous.  I suspect that many that have gotten into Runequest over the years have done so as a rejection of D&D?

My experience it was either that the system allowed to make the exact character in their mind's eye or that the system offered more details particularly combat. Neither of which was found in various classic editions of D&D.

Then 3.X/D20 fixed both with "good enough" mechanics that all but choked off the flow of gamers from D&D to the alternatives. The alternatives that thrived were Fate, Savage Worlds and similar lite RPGs.

A RPG having detailed mechanics and/or detailed combat can longer take advantage of being NOT D&D. Instead you had rely solely on growing your own audience. Something that seems the D100/BRP family of games seems have been successful at and GURPS, HERO have not.

Note that D&D 4e could have restored the earlier dynamic but the advent of Pathfinder meant it survived. The main problem of D&D 4e it was too game-like making harder to see what your character was doing.  Compared to say Runequest where it very obvious to how each type of action was tied to what the character was doing.

Quote from: Loz;689531Oh, I don't doubt it may have been time-consuming. I've simply never seen it take in the region of four hours.

I concur, overly long character generation was not one of the complaints I heard. Yeah it was longer but nothing compared to games like Chivalry & Sorcery, Aftermath and especially my beloved GURPS.

I tried a game of Runequest 2nd Edition last years and chargen took an hour tops. The longest amount of time was spent on trying to figure out the advanced professions in the back (the stuff where you spend money to get trained). If we just did the recommended beginning character we would have done in a half hour.

Quote from: Doom;689544Now, PF/3.5 character creation is rough, and positively brutal once the character starts getting levels. But now there is software that does it. It's amazing the number of players I know that simply cannot create a character without using software assistance. Even with 4e, players were often paralyzed without software aid. The idea of simply rolling up a character and no min/maxing with respect to 20,000 pages of text (only doable via software, I concede) is abhorrent now, but I digress.

A perfect example of the power of accessibility.

Quote from: Doom;689544If RQ could have come out with such a thing back then, that would have helped, I bet.

If Chaosium had shipped an in-house developed program on a floppy with the each copy of RQ2/3, I doubt it would have helped the game's popularity:p

Quote from: estar;689548I concur, overly long character generation was not one of the complaints I heard. Yeah it was longer but nothing compared to games like Chivalry & Sorcery, Aftermath and especially my beloved GURPS.

I tried a game of Runequest 2nd Edition last years and chargen took an hour tops. The longest amount of time was spent on trying to figure out the advanced professions in the back (the stuff where you spend money to get trained). If we just did the recommended beginning character we would have done in a half hour.

Details matter.  Was everyone sharing one boxed set or were there multiple copies floating around?  Was everyone new to the game or was there someone who new enough to guide folks along?  Did you use pre-printed character sheets or did everyone hand scrawl on notebook paper?  Was everyone involved a mature adult looking to get to the heart of the matter or was it mostly teenagers with all that entails?

Quote from: Loz;689511Wow! I've never, ever, come across RQ character generation taking 2+ hours. Rolemaster yes... but never RQ.

With the first couple of editions, starting characters without previous experience, RQ generation is in my experience about the same as generating 1st-level characters for AD&D.

With those same editions, most previous-experience options add just a little more time. Apprentices and nobles can be more time consuming, since they involve actually spending lunars on training (and nobles can have a lot of cash!).

The main method in the Avalon Hill edition seemed a bit more work to me, but that might not be accurate. There was also a quicker alternative, without all the cultural details.

An approach like that in Call of Cthulhu and Elric! can be pretty fast and very flexible. Stormbringer had a sort of "character class" set of backgrounds, and Magic World an even simpler one; another system along that line appeared in White Dwarf.

I'm about 1 hour away from kickoff, and we have some math-challenged folks in our group. I've allotted 4 hours for RQ6 generation, but much of that will be spent socializing, eating, talking over/finalizing character concepts, eating, discussing the world, having wassail, and somewhere in there, getting down to chargen. Actual chargen shouldn't take that long.

People, snacks, setting, system. We're doing it right.

Dnd is a wargame, 30 + years and all you have is a combat game. The experience system.shows it 3rd ed under, dont have fourth handy. RQ and such are.role playing games, dnd has it tacked on.
A simple dnd character us just a combat machine, RQ is a character even Palladium has experience for noncombat.
As for quick generation demands on gms hubby has it down to 30 minutes with smart people , a little longer for those slower.
Saying it took you long is like comparing a person that cooks alot and can easily produce a meal, and someone who keeps lookung at the cook book, unprepared.
In the same way of thinking dnd is just chips and maybe hot dogs. Compared to a five course indian dinner. For some easy food is fine for others. Well...
When I was comparing the over roll to dnd I was trying to convey, because if that many people espcially math impaired dont understand it still is a percentile roll, it is based on wargaming mechanics dnd is directly derived from.

Quote from: baragei;689550If Chaosium had shipped an in-house developed program on a floppy with the each copy of RQ2/3, I doubt it would have helped the game's popularity:p

Well...this isn't exactly PC chargen, but it's pretty close, this very handy RuneQuest 6 NPC generator - just add a number and click.
http://ouropa.planeetta.com/rq_tools/enemygen/
by Erkki Lepre

You can even make an account, customise one of the templates, save it and use it however you like, including using it as for instant PC-Gen.

Quote from: Bilharzia;689564..this very handy RuneQuest 6 NPC generator..

Yes. Very handy. Still not made by Chaosium, though:p
While we're at handy things, the interactive PDF Character Sheet is superhandy. I think LanguageGeek here made it? Let me thank you once again.