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"3rd ed is the game of choice for assholes"

Started by Benoist, August 14, 2012, 03:12:18 PM

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Lord Mistborn

#1260
August 23, 2012, 02:29:30 PM
Declan MacManus made a post and I don't have to see it.

Ignore user is the best feature ever.
Quote from: Me;576460As much as this debacle of a thread has been an embarrassment for me personally (and it has ^_^\' ). I salute you mister unintelligible troll guy. You ran as far to the extreme as possible on the anti-3e thing and Benoist still defended you against my criticism. Good job.

Declan MacManus

#1261
August 23, 2012, 02:31:11 PM
Thrice! Thrice quoted on grognards.txt!

Whee :D
I used to be amused, now I\'m back to being disgusted.

Bill

#1262
August 23, 2012, 02:31:24 PM
Quote from: Lord Mistborn;575807This tread came pre-trolled because it's a fucking troll thread, you have made no substantive or logical argument. All you have done is post



and I'm done even trying to respond to it in good faith. Enjoy being on my ignore list.

as for the rest of the OSR crowd, take a good long look at this thread and the people who started it. Take a good long look a Declan, you enable him with your bullshit.

OSR crowd?

jhkim

#1263
August 23, 2012, 02:34:30 PM
Quote from: Declan MacManus;575749These traits are widely regarded as being among the worst that gamers can have. Therefore, it would not be too much of a stretch to say that people who exhibit these traits in abundance are assholes.

Among all of the various iterations of D&D, 3rd edition is the most supportive and rewarding of these traits.

So I posit then, that if 3E rewards asshole gamer traits more than any other edition of D&D, then the people who prefer to play 3E over other versions do so precisely because the game enables asshole-ish tendencies. Ergo, people who prefer 3E are assholes.
This is a fundamental flaw of logic.  Even if I grant your statement "assholes like 3E" (which I don't), it doesn't logically follow that "those who like 3E are assholes".  Jackasses like hay - this doesn't mean that any animal that likes hay is a jackass.

Declan MacManus

#1264
August 23, 2012, 02:38:22 PM
Quote from: jhkim;575816This is a fundamental flaw of logic.  Even if I grant your statement "assholes like 3E" (which I don't), it doesn't logically follow that "those who like 3E are assholes".  Jackasses like hay - this doesn't mean that any animal that likes hay is a jackass.

My assertion is that the people who prefer 3rd edition over other editions do so BECAUSE they are assholes.

If they weren't assholes, then they would be playing something different is my assertion.
I used to be amused, now I\'m back to being disgusted.

Lord Mistborn

#1265
August 23, 2012, 02:43:46 PM
Quote from: Bill;575814OSR crowd?

Benoist and his cronies, or at least I think thats the right term for them.
Quote from: Me;576460As much as this debacle of a thread has been an embarrassment for me personally (and it has ^_^\' ). I salute you mister unintelligible troll guy. You ran as far to the extreme as possible on the anti-3e thing and Benoist still defended you against my criticism. Good job.

Bill

#1266
August 23, 2012, 02:45:03 PM
Quote from: Lord Mistborn;575819Benoist and his cronies. or at least I think thats the right term

I want cronies!

Declan MacManus

#1267
August 23, 2012, 02:52:07 PM
Quote from: Bill;575821I want cronies!

Go to Labor Ready.
I used to be amused, now I\'m back to being disgusted.

Benoist

#1268
August 23, 2012, 02:52:38 PM Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 02:56:42 PM by Benoist
Quote from: Lord Mistborn;575819Benoist and his cronies, or at least I think thats the right term for them.

I'm not an "OSR" whatever. I like some old school games, true, and like the game play of these games. I certainly like some of the "OSR" output in terms of products and have some good friends amongst the people that make them. What I'm not is some sort of chill for a nebulous "movement" mostly based on a blogosphere I don't read with any regularity whatsoever. So branding me "OSR" just because I like games like O/AD&D is a stretch.

As for cronies... whatever.

jhkim

#1269
August 23, 2012, 02:53:22 PM
Quote from: Declan MacManus;575817My assertion is that the people who prefer 3rd edition over other editions do so BECAUSE they are assholes.

If they weren't assholes, then they would be playing something different is my assertion.
You can assert that, but none of the argument that you posted actually leads to that conclusion.  

In any case, I don't agree about your whole concept of "asshole".  Even if my group insists on playing by rules-as-written, and our adventures are solely about making the toughest party that beats the most monsters... that doesn't make us assholes.  I've played a number of times that were explicitly this - sometimes using board games rules (like Wrath of Ashardalon), but also sometimes using RPG rules and treating the adventure purely as a tactical challenge.  We enjoyed ourselves playing a game together and enjoying a fun social activity.

Declan MacManus

#1270
August 23, 2012, 03:02:07 PM
Quote from: jhkim;575824You can assert that, but none of the argument that you posted actually leads to that conclusion.  

In any case, I don't agree about your whole concept of "asshole".  Even if my group insists on playing by rules-as-written, and our adventures are solely about making the toughest party that beats the most monsters... that doesn't make us assholes.  I've played a number of times that were explicitly this - sometimes using board games rules (like Wrath of Ashardalon), but also sometimes using RPG rules and treating the adventure purely as a tactical challenge.  We enjoyed ourselves playing a game together and enjoying a fun social activity.

Really?

Mind if I interview some of your neighbors and colleagues?

I'm not entirely sure that you would be the most objective arbiter on whether or not you qualify as an "asshole"!

I'm sure there are a lot of people reading this who are thinking:

"Waaaiiit a minute! 3rd edition is MY favorite version of D&D and I'm not an asshole! I'd log on and tell him so if I wasn't already busy raping puppies and stealing old peoples' social security checks!"

Again...people seem to think that I'm saying that 3ggers are asswads because they play 3rd edition.

That's not what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying that they play 3E because they are asswads.
I used to be amused, now I\'m back to being disgusted.

mcbobbo

#1271
August 23, 2012, 03:06:42 PM
Quote from: Bill;575821I want cronies!

Sorry, that requires the Leadership feat.
"It is the mark of an [intelligent] mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

RandallS

#1272
August 23, 2012, 03:09:00 PM
Quote from: Declan MacManus;575817My assertion is that the people who prefer 3rd edition over other editions do so BECAUSE they are assholes.

You've presented no evidence to support such a claim. You have presented evidence that 3.x and the culture around it is attractive to and often supportive of people who were considered poor players in previous editions (e.g. min-maxers, rules lawyers, munchkins, etc), but that's a long way from showing that everyone who prefers  D&D 3.x is a min-maxer, rules lawyer, munchkin, or other asshole player.

I know many people who prefer 3.x but play in more like 2e and whose games do not welcome min-maxers, rules lawyer, munchkins, etc.
Randall
Rules Light RPGs: Home of Microlite20 and Other Rules-Lite Tabletop RPGs

Benoist

#1273
August 23, 2012, 03:13:34 PM
Quote from: RandallS;575833You've presented no evidence to support such a claim. You have presented evidence that 3.x and the culture around it is attractive to and often supportive of people who were considered poor players in previous editions (e.g. min-maxers, rules lawyers, munchkins, etc), but that's a long way from showing that everyone who prefers  D&D 3.x is a min-maxer, rules lawyer, munchkin, or other asshole player.

I know many people who prefer 3.x but play in more like 2e and whose games do not welcome min-maxers, rules lawyer, munchkins, etc.

Ditto to that. There is a difference.

Declan MacManus

#1274
August 23, 2012, 03:26:56 PM
Quote from: RandallS;575833I know many people who prefer 3.x but play in more like 2e and whose games do not welcome min-maxers, rules lawyer, munchkins, etc.

So they play 3E for the same kind of game they could have playing 2E, presumably just for the love of bureaucratic number crunching.

Sounds like a bunch of assholes to me.
I used to be amused, now I\'m back to being disgusted.
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