Quote from: thedungeondelver;1052568I think the heart of Pundit's statement still holds true though.  If Sarkeesian had been at that bar instead of Hambly, and someone with a booth, doing product promotions, had shouted at her, then that person would've been tossed out of GenCon.

Of course, and that's the whole problem. Either kick everyone out for violence, or no one. Don't placate one group because they're REALLY vocal and annoying and ignore another because they're able to deal with reality.

I suppose my favorite part about this whole episode is blaming the Hamblin guy because he is actually pursuing litigation, as if it's only a valid course of action for "oppressed" people. White male? How can he sue?

Quote from: soltakss;1052566To be fair, the incident happend in a bar outside GenCon, so they wouldn't really have any grounds on banning people. Had it happened onsite then there would be strong grounds.

I haven't been keeping a list, but I could have sworn we've seen cons banning people for all kinds of things that didn't happen at their con.  I don't even recall the accusations including beating anyone up.

Quote from: Almost_Useless;1052572I haven't been keeping a list, but I could have sworn we've seen cons banning people for all kinds of things that didn't happen at their con.  I don't even recall the accusations including beating anyone up.

People (I think it was actually that Jessica Price clown) were calling for Frank Mentzer's head because he made an awkward pass at some girl (again, maybe Price), and threatening NTRPGCon if he was a guest. Totally unrelated, not even a crime, just an old man who was being somewhat annoying.

Quote from: Omega;1052500Aside from the loony of cons like PAX and a few others it has overall not been this fruitcake. You could go to a con after con and never see a single problem.

I recently went to Continuum in Leicester and they appointed a Safety Officer, in case there were reports of harrassment etc and nothing was reported to them at all. So, there are some cons where people go to game and have fun, not to make names for themselves.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1052502Fun fact: If you search for the word Charlottesville on this site you turn up almost nothing, and none of it related to the most dramatic event of purely political violence in recent history. Hard to say why, and perhaps if I rolled up my sleeves and really dug through the pages from a year ago I'd find something. But one possibility is that it's because the douches who lead the charge on the 'SJW' rants around here are completely uninterested when a young man who identifies as a Nazi murders and maims innocent people, but enjoy wallowing in 50 pages of catastrophizing self pity when an alt-light attention seeker gets a light punch up. So, you can roll your argument up into a little ball of false equivalence and stuff it up your ass.

Although Charlottesville was a terrible incident, with a lot of right wing violence and violence from counter-demonstrators, it had nothing to do with RPGs, as far as I know, so why would it have come up here?

BTTW, I use Google to search therpgsite rather than the broken search facility.

Quote from: Larsdangly;1052502Fun fact: If you search for the word Charlottesville on this site you turn up almost nothing, and none of it related to the most dramatic event of purely political violence in recent history. Hard to say why, and perhaps if I rolled up my sleeves and really dug through the pages from a year ago I'd find something. But one possibility is that it's because the douches who lead the charge on the 'SJW' rants around here are completely uninterested when a young man who identifies as a Nazi murders and maims innocent people, but enjoy wallowing in 50 pages of catastrophizing self pity when an alt-light attention seeker gets a light punch up. So, you can roll your argument up into a little ball of false equivalence and stuff it up your ass.

I have to go with what everyone else has said about this particular non sequitur. If a bunch of tiki torch waving white supremacists had marched on a gaming convention, I'm pretty sure there would have been a thread here devoted to the incident.

Quote from: soltakss;1052566To be fair, the incident happend in a bar outside GenCon, so they wouldn't really have any grounds on banning people. Had it happened onsite then there would be strong grounds.

When the assault occurred, the victim and/or the witnesses (not sure) stated that the attacker was wearing his GenCon badge. This drags them into it.

If someone had yelled at sarkeesian, we would not stop hearing about how unsafe the incident makes the usual couch fainters feel.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1052584When the assault occurred, the victim and/or the witnesses (not sure) stated that the attacker was wearing his GenCon badge. This drags them into it.

Not just Matt Loter wearing a GenCon badge mandates that GenCon should respond and ban Matt Loter from coming back to the convention. The victim was targeted specifically because he was attending GenCon, and when Matt made his threat to fight anyone critical of Sarkeesian on Twitter had tagged @GenCon into that conversation.

I can't think it would serve GenCon well to say that the safety of their attendees only applies within the strict confines of the convention center, but 1 foot outside the convention it might as well be the Wild West. Such a stance runs the risk of inviting escalation, and in turn causing a negative impact on attendance. Much better for everyone if they take action now and set a clear line that any violence and/or intimidation won't be tolerated by GenCon even if it doesn't occur on site. GenCon can't and shouldn't attempt to police the world, but it seems reasonable that they should expect attendees to not engage in violence anywhere during the con from the time people start travelling to the con, to the time return home. I also think they'd be in their rights to ban someone who engaged in violence at another gaming convention. Again, they can't police everyone involved in a scuffle everywhere at any time, but in this case Matt was quite public and deliberate about targeting GenCon attendees.

Its still off site though. Its pretty common for people to wear their badge just about 24/7 when at a con so they dont forget it or misplace it since losing a badge can be a major pain in the ass depending on how much of a dick or not the con managers or security are about it. And I've had some minor run ins with con security being dicks. But in one case it was just because everyone was on edge due to some incidents with corrupt news groups.

And with GenCon you need your badge for any of the off site events and at least back in the 90s there were several as noted previously and Id bet there are still. And these were scheduled events in the convention book. Hambly was not at one at that bar though.

Quote from: Omega;1052590Its still off site though. Its pretty common for people to wear their badge just about 24/7 when at a con so they dont forget it or misplace it since losing a badge can be a major pain in the ass depending........

Heck I still had my badge on while riding in the car on the way home to Cincinnati. We stopped in at a Cracker Barrel restaurant in the Shelbyville area and the hostess said "Did you like Gen Con?"  - oh yeah, because I still had my badge and lanyard on.

Crazy Good thing happened at the porch of the restaurant ....never mind I got lost in that tangent.....

- Ed C.

Quote from: Gagarth;1052533How many are there about the attack on the baseball game in Alexandria, VA ?

I don't remember a dedicated thread, but I'm pretty sure we barfed and farted about it, as we are oft found to do during high tea.

I was surprised the shooter was a BernieBro. I don't like politicians in general and feel most of them deserve prison terms, but even I don't approve of popping them in the head.

But I agree the shooter was deranged. Sane BernieBros know the Democrats, not the Republicans, fucked Sanders over and ensured Trump's victory.

Quote from: soltakss;1052574I recently went to Continuum in Leicester and they appointed a Safety Officer, in case there were reports of harrassment etc

OMG OMG OMG I would have SOOOO fucked with them.

What a bunch of worthless losers.

Quote from: Koltar;1052591Crazy Good thing happened at the porch of the restaurant ....

What's her name!!!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1052593What's her name!!!

Alright, not naming her - but I was waiting outside on their porch for our party to be called on the P.A. From my Right I hear someone yell out: "Ed, is that you ?".  
I turn to my right and it was an old girlfriend thst I had dated back in 1994. We were both active in Klingon fandom in the '90s, she played role playing games....etc. What is weird is that we both live in Ohio - yet we bump into each other in Shelbyville Indiana.

She was there with her kid because they had been visiting the Children's museum in Indianapolis. Her husband was back in Ohio. (Yeah, she married somebody else years ago...)

- Ed C.

As for GenCon's culpability, I do NOT support blaming them. Expecting corporations to police off-site behavior (or off-hours employees) reeks of Nanny State Orwellian Bullshit.

Yes, I know companies are already doing that. I fucking HATE that nonsense because soon all employees (and con attendees) will be 24/7 monitored for corporate friendliness.

Fuck.That.Shit.

And yes, I absolutely 10000% agree that if someone looked at their joke of a Guest of Honor wrong at a site away from the con, GenCon's management would have shit itself.  

THAT's why I will NOT support GenCon financially.

BTW, when Hambly gets a lawyer, don't be surprised if the lawyer tries a shuck and jive with "GenCon set up [or allowed, cultivated, etc] a dangerous atmosphere and by inaction, encouraged this behavior...as can be seen by these online responses from prominent attendees supporting my client being attacked." AKA, a tactic we've seen used in cases involving drunken idiot fights in stadium parking lots...and maybe some judges [depending on their breakfast] might listen to that.

Spinachat, I don't think GenCon deserves blame for what happened, but I do think that going forward they do have an obligation to ban Matt Loter.

Imagine the following situation:
1. You're throwing a party at your house.
2. Two of the people (Mr. D and Mr. R) that you've invited have strong allegiances to the Democrat and Republican parties. Mr. D is a staunch Democrat, and Mr R is a staunch Republican.
3. Mr. R puts word out on Twitter that he'd like to punch anyone attending Mr. Spinachat's party who happens to be a Democrat. You don't necessarily know about this tweet because you're living an actual life and prepping for the party.
4. While at the party someone points out to Mr. B that Mr. D is a Democrat.
5. Mr. D exits your house to get in his car to pick up some smokes, and plans to come back to your party.
6. While Mr D. is on the street and getting into his car, Mr. R sucker punches Mr. D. Mr. R then drives back to his own home.
7. There were several witnesses to Mr. R assaulting Mr. D. Mr. D files a police report. Mr. R's previous social media statements threatening violence to any Deomocrats who attends Mr. Spinachat's party are found.
8. All of the above information is made known to you.

Do you think it would be out of bounds (Orwellian/nanny state) for you to stop inviting Mr. R to your parties? That's what I believe some of us are asking of GenCon.

Would you instead continue to invite both Mr. D and Mr. R to your parties, essentially telling Mr. D you won't tolerate any violence in your house, but immediately upon leaving your house he's on his own as far as not getting attacked by Mr. R, whom you've continued to invite to the same parties?

I hate the Orwellian vision of the future as much as anyone, but I don't think this is the scenario we have here.