Quote from: S'mon;1033941I think Immortals Set Pit Fiends very rarely saw any play and aren't really part of mainstream D&D experience - do they even officially exist? I recall Demons in the Immortals Set, no Devils.

There are roaring lesser fiends in the box set (more like a Balor).
I just assumed greater Immortal from the RC stats.

I don't see anything about Pit Fiends in Ch. 15 of the RC. What page did you find them?

Quote from: fearsomepirate;1033957I don't see anything about Pit Fiends in Ch. 15 of the RC. What page did you find them?

I said "Pitfiend equivalent" which I took as a greater Immortal from the Immortals chapter.

I was looking around the internet to see if anyone knew where Basic D&D or oD&D Pitfiend might be. Someone floated the idea that since demons and devils are Immortal when not on their plane, they would be Immortals. And fair enough, there are some fiends in the Wrath of the Immortals box, but since I was talking about RC D&D, I used the rules in that book.

Quote from: Rhedyn;1033961I said "Pitfiend equivalent" which I took as a greater Immortal from the Immortals chapter.

I was looking around the internet to see if anyone knew where Basic D&D or oD&D Pitfiend might be. Someone floated the idea that since demons and devils are Immortal when not on their plane, they would be Immortals. And fair enough, there are some fiends in the Wrath of the Immortals box, but since I was talking about RC D&D, I used the rules in that book.

In other words, your super powerful "RC Pit Fiend" is just something you made up. Might as well argue about the 5e aurumvorax.

Quote from: fearsomepirate;1033970In other words, your super powerful "RC Pit Fiend" is just something you made up. Might as well argue about the 5e aurumvorax.

The same one that could be killed by a large max level party without a miguffan?

And if your not willing to extrapolate things, then RC D&D is not for you.
"Rules light"/Mid-crunch means I have rules for everything but it's up to the DM how to apply them.
There are rules for Greater Immortal stats and the book is very clear on what they can do. Pitfiends are Immortal and near the top of the devil hierarchy. They aren't ultimate Immortals, and they are greater than imps (also immortal), therefore they would be a Greater Immortal.

Today I learned I want to play a 1/16th Yuan-ti Ancestral character

Quote from: Rhedyn;1033971And if your not willing to extrapolate things, then RC D&D is not for you.

And if you're willing to argue that a homebrew monster you made up is the standard by which the officially published version must be judged, nobody will pay attention to you, and you will keep getting added to ignore lists.

QuoteThere are rules for Greater Immortal stats

Nobody cares what rubric you used to make up a monster for an edition/setting that doesn't include it. It is completely irrelevant.

Quote from: fearsomepirate;1033986Nobody cares what rubric you used to make up a monster for an edition/setting that doesn't include it. It is completely irrelevant.

Well maybe you don't, but others have already weighed in on how competent AD&D and other edition Pitfiends are.

I feel like you're just trying to harp on miscellaneous nonesense because the overall point runs counter to what you propositioned.

If you want something more statted out, the roaring friend lesser immortal from Wrath of the Immortals box set appears to be a proto Balor which is comparable to a Pitfiend.
You still aren't killing it with level 9s, but a max level party could probably manage (those use the complex Power Point rules from the box which I haven't dug into as much).

* stations archers to cover the exits *
* sets thread on fire *

Quote from: fearsomepirate;1033970In other words, your super powerful "RC Pit Fiend" is just something you made up. Might as well argue about the 5e aurumvorax.

He took the Greater Immortal stats - those are intended for eg Zeus, Odin, Hel & equivalent. The Roaring Demon is indeed a Type VI/Balor demon so somewhat better comparison. AIR the demons are actually Empyreals not full Immortals and so could be hacked up by mortal PCs.

Quote from: Ulairi;1033858I don't think this is an issue at all in real life. Nobody that actually plays D&D gets offended that race is a character trait

But this could be about the people who don't play D&D but might have ...

Quote from: Anselyn;1034036But this could be about the people who don't play D&D but might have ...

Nobody on the fucking planet is interested enough to play D&D and when they find out that there is a character trait of Race for Elves, Dwarves, Humans, and many other different RACES, decides they don't want to play. These people don't actually exist in the real world. The only people that can get offended about the character trait being called Race are fucking moronic white people that spend way too much time on social media or want to find problems to preen about on web forums.

Get real. There won't be one book sold because of this change. This is just Paizo trying to appease the leftist jacobins on social media. It's why anybody who isn't a leftwing nut should get off social media so they can devor themselves and we can just walk over the dead bodies when the war is over.

No doubt I'm in the minority around here, since I'm politically progressive, and have found something to like in every edition of D&D (including 4e).

But changing Race to Ancestry is so stupid and screaming of SJW, it makes me want to spew. Race is integral to the D&D experience. If I want to play an edition of D&D that upsets the apple cart as much as PF2 apparently wants to, I'll just play 4e. At least that system did it in the interest of gaming balance, not ideals based on white-privileged guilt.

Quote from: Robyo;1034046No doubt I'm in the minority around here, since I'm politically progressive, and have found something to like in every edition of D&D (including 4e).

But changing Race to Ancestry is so stupid and screaming of SJW, it makes me want to spew. Race is integral to the D&D experience. If I want to play an edition of D&D that upsets the apple cart as much as PF2 apparently wants to, I'll just play 4e. At least that system did it in the interest of gaming balance, not ideals based on white-privileged guilt.

Changing Race to Ancestry is more confusing for new players. People intuitively understand race. Most people, who are not from Seattle and love to take photos with their mouth agape, know that Elves are a difference Race than Dwarves. Why confuse things? If they wanted they could call races species but Ancestry is stupid and will bite them on the nose when the 4channers get ahold of it.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1033995* stations archers to cover the exits *
* sets thread on fire *

*Casts protection from fire*
*casts protection from arrows*